who says we look for incidences?

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mr_hippo

Living Legend & Old Fart
We have had:-
Episode 1 - I have had an incident and have posted it on youtube
Episode 2 - I have not had an incident so cannot post it on youtube
Coming soon to a computer monitor near you:-
Episode 3 - I have had not an incident but I saw this posted on youtube
Episode 4 - I have had not an incident and I saw nothing new posted on youtube
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
I think Paul makes some good point actually, and I'm not and neither should anyone else taking his comments as a full broadside at all camera cyclists.
Unfortunately when I read PaulSB's posts it reeks of passive victim blame. It's the cyclists responsibility to do something about the dangers they are put in. This is just a load of BS, the cyclists DID NOT bring the danger to the situation the motorist did & in this country there's very few repercussions for those drivers who don't get away with high risk manoeuvres because the general driving population see high risk taking as normal.

I've been videoing my drives far longer than I've been videoing my rides & the constant theme I keep seeing in both is how very little happens because the people around react & get out of the way. Problem is all it takes is one of those drivers who would normally get out the way to be pre-occupied with something else (say they spot a child who looks like they might run across the road) not to respond & you've got some sort of incident. Cyclists are more likely to get animated about these things as they're not surrounded by a large metal shell to make them feel safe. Let's face it a broken car is a lot less of a problem than a broken person.
 

Matthew_T

"Young and Ex-whippet"
I think videoing rides is a good way to not only see what you might be doing wrong, but show other people how do deal with a situation and possibly what not to do.

I only upload the worst of the worst because the amount of close passes and SMIDSY's I got are unavoidable and minor compared to getting left hooked and driven at.

The problem with posting videos, is that they have a tendancy to attract the wrong type of responses. The only reason that I post them on here is that I am looking for advice and tips on what I should have done differently if anything, not abuse about why I was doing what I was.
 

col

Legendary Member
All is well and good with posting vids for all to see, IF it shows something real. But if I see a vid where an incident has been made worse by the driver or cyclist, Ill say what I think, some dont like that.
 

BSRU

A Human Being
Location
Swindon
All is well and good with posting vids for all to see, IF it shows something real. But if I see a vid where an incident has been made worse by the driver or cyclist, Ill say what I think, some dont like that.
So you should, quite often the cyclist is too involved in the incident to notice the blindingly obvious.
 
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MrHappyCyclist

Riding the Devil's HIghway
Location
Bolton, England
All is well and good with posting vids for all to see, IF it shows something real. But if I see a vid where an incident has been made worse by the driver or cyclist, Ill say what I think, some dont like that.
And some welcome it, although "welcome" doesn't necessarily mean "agree with".
 
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wiggydiggy

Legendary Member
All is well and good with posting vids for all to see, IF it shows something real. But if I see a vid where an incident has been made worse by the driver or cyclist, Ill say what I think, some dont like that.

I take the opposite approach with almost all vids, I'll watch them but rarely comment - it'd be like trying to fill a sieve with water commenting on all the vids!^_^

I do enjoy them though and appreciate people posting them, the good and the bad. Its all experience I wouldn't have otherwise had.:thumbsup:
 

PaulSB

Squire
I think Paul makes some good point actually, and I'm not and neither should anyone else taking his comments as a full broadside at all camera cyclists. Gaz has pointed me at some vids, thanks, and I'll be accepting recommendations for more:thumbsup:

Thank you for that. I don't very often get involved in these discussions and anyone taking the trouble to look at my posting history will see 99% of it is limited to when I have some advice to offer on a topic. While I'm an experienced cyclist (I do a lot if miles) my knowledge in many areas couldn't hold a candle to some on here so my contribution is limited.

The camera culture is one I don't understand and has some worrying undertones for me. In order to try and have a discussion I've thought long and hard about how to phrase my opinion and questions. Especially because I've noted how people can react to the points I tried to raise. The responses unfortunately have been of a nature that reinforces my concerns over the motivations behind video use.
 

PaulSB

Squire
What I don't get is how PaulSB thinks that cyclists can be educated, but drivers can't be. Can drivers not learn too?

I think you misunderstood my point. Anyone with a willingness to learn can be educated. The issue surrounds willingness. I doubt many drivers are interested in the You Tube videos and the number reported to the police etc. will be a minute percentage of motorists. Therefore it stands to reason considering helping more cyclists, a presumably interested audience, gain knowledge on how to deal with situations is more productive than speaking to a disinterested audience?
 

PaulSB

Squire
With respect, though you claim to have studied the subject, lecturing Gaz about how he should try to educate other cyclists shows you haven't really looked far at all!

The only claim I made was that I had "taken an interest" I made no claim to an in depth study and have tried very hard to avoid being in anyway unpleasant or to "lecture" anyone. I've tried to raise points and opinions.

The videos I've studied, actually viewed would be a better word, are those posted on here by camera-culture supporters. I felt these videos were being used to support their case , I have not surfed the net looking for material in an attempt to trip people up.

What I have viewed, one instance springs to mind immediately provided by Gaz, is a number if incidences where the cyclist created the situation but the motorist is castigated and his number published. I don't quite follow that.
 

PaulSB

Squire
Unfortunately when I read PaulSB's posts it reeks of passive victim blame. It's the cyclists responsibility to do something about the dangers they are put in. This is just a load of BS, the cyclists DID NOT bring the danger to the situation the motorist did & in this country there's very few repercussions for those drivers who don't get away with high risk manoeuvres because the general driving population see high risk taking as normal.

Passive victim blame and BS? Thank you.

At no point have I made any such suggestion nor have I tried to blame cyclists. I have though pointed out in some of evidence provided by camera users that better riding would have prevented the incident in the first place.

I've also said on my recent trip to London I observed the worst cycling behaviour I've seen, while acknowledging London cyclists may face issues I'm utterly unaware of. All I can say is if as a tourist I'm struck by the level of poor riding I observed on a visit to the capital there may be questions to be answered.

I've been videoing my drives far longer than I've been videoing my rides & the constant theme I keep seeing in both is how very little happens because the people around react & get out of the way. Problem is all it takes is one of those drivers who would normally get out the way to be pre-occupied with something else (say they spot a child who looks like they might run across the road) not to respond & you've got some sort of incident. Cyclists are more likely to get animated about these things as they're not surrounded by a large metal shell to make them feel safe. Let's face it a broken car is a lot less of a problem than a broken person.

I'm not trying to selectively quite your post. I just don't have a reaction to this point.
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
I think you misunderstood my point. Anyone with a willingness to learn can be educated. The issue surrounds willingness. I doubt many drivers are interested in the You Tube videos and the number reported to the police etc. will be a minute percentage of motorists. Therefore it stands to reason considering helping more cyclists, a presumably interested audience, gain knowledge on how to deal with situations is more productive than speaking to a disinterested audience?

OK, I see your point - the issue remains that the general cyclist, looking at these videos, will be as willing/unwilling as the general motorist is to learn. We're the same humans, after all. Educating cyclists isn't going to do much at all to improve road safety, because cyclists don't kill and injure hundreds of thousands of people per year. Drivers do that, and that's why I'm with GrasB's victim blaming point.

I think that drivers might be unwilling to learn from just a video, but they're considerably more likely to learn when that video is accompanied by a letter from the police or even a notice of intended prosecution. They're also more likely to learn, unwillingly, when they are called for an interview with their manager/company transport manager to discuss their driving and how they brought their company name into disrepute, if it was a fleet vehicle that was filmed.

I recall reading about a study that showed very strongly how stricter traffic policing made a huge difference to injuries and deaths on the roads. I don't see why cameras won't have a similar effect. You may think the number of motorists affected by filming are tiny, but with thousands of camera cyclists out there, that's not quite true. Moreover, filmed drivers are likely to tell quite a few people about what happened to them, and with the publicity over camera incidents, I think the effect is much larger than you suggest.

Of course the alternative is to do nothing - that way you're guaranteed that the filmed drivers will improve their behaviour, yes?
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
I have though pointed out in some of evidence provided by camera users that better riding would have prevented the incident in the first place.

That's only partially relevant, surely? Let's say I was overtaken very closely at a pinch point, like the video below. Yes, a stronger position on the road would probably have prevented, or at least discouraged, the incident, but that doesn't mean the driver was justified in such a terrible overtake.

 
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