Who's at fault....Lorry driver, cyclist or the cycle lane designer?

[Mugshot]

Turning to the issues of lorries, Inspector Aspinall told the meeting about a day of City of London spot checks on HGVs, carried out on 30 September 2008 as part of the Europe-wide Operation Mermaid, which is intended to step up levels of enforcement of road safety laws in relation to lorries. On this one day, 12 lorries were stopped randomly by City Police. Five of those lorries were involved in the construction work for the 2012 Olympics. All of the twelve lorries were breaking the law in at least one way. Repeat: a 100 per cent criminality rate among small random sample of HGVs on the streets of central London. The offences range included overweight loads (2 cases), mechanical breaches (5 cases), driver hours breaches (5 cases), mobile phone use while driving (2 cases), driving without insurance (2 cases) and no operator license (1 case).​

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present dawesome, the last man in the UK that accepts 100% of police statements and 100% of police reports, 100% of the time
Unless of course he's cherry picking

 

[GrasB]

So he should have been more cautious with his road position just in case a cyclist with a death wish decides to try and beat him to the end of the cycle lane? Surely what he should have expected was that the cyclist would have followed the cycle lane and not just try and join the road in front of him executing a very dangerous maneuver in front of him. That is what road planners wanted the cyclist to do so why shouldn't the lorry driver have expected this? Oh yeah, I forgot, it's the "just in case" argument.

I've put £2 on tonight's EuroMillions, I think I will go out today and hammer my credit card just in case I win.

Both my Lotus & Alfa have large blind spots to the rear quater area, I can easily lose a transit van in them. So when I change speed & want to make a manoeuvre I double check the blind spot specifically because I know I can lose a transit van in that blind spot. I also regularly check that blind spot & when I want to pull tight into the nearside or turn left when pulling away I double check the blind spot for cyclists as a matter of routine, just in case.

The lory drive by accelerating moved the goal posts & didn't consider the consequences of that of the vehicles which potentially were around him & within his blind spot. So yes this is 'a just in case' scenario. That doesn't mean the lorry driver is entirely to blame but only that there were things he could & possibly should have anticipated & didn't.

If you don't understand why this is a just in case scenario then please do everyone on the road a favor before you cause undue danger to those on the road around you & do one of these things:
1) surrender your driving licence
2 a) buy a copy of road craft, read it, understand it & practice it
2 b) get your self enrolled on an IAM or RoSPA training program & get your AD certificate

 

[Mugshot]

The offences range included overweight loads (2 cases), mechanical breaches (5 cases), driver hours breaches (5 cases), mobile phone use while driving (2 cases), driving without insurance (2 cases) and no operator license (1 case).

How do these findings tie in with the statement below?

often driven by neanderthal thugs and drunkards

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Um, you've snipped the bit out of my post that showed that of the random HGVs stopped in London 100% were breaking the law.

It's a fairly straightforward question and answer that I quoted.
You were asked by Boris Bajic: "are you somehow tarring all lorry drivers with the same brush?"
You replied: "You betcha".

That's not a maybe, it's a reinforced affirmation.

Are you now taking a different stance?


GC

 

[Mugshot]

are you somehow tarring all lorry drivers with the same brush?

You betcha:

Turning to the issues of lorries, Inspector Aspinall told the meeting about a day of City of London spot checks on HGVs, carried out on 30 September 2008 as part of the Europe-wide Operation Mermaid, which is intended to step up levels of enforcement of road safety laws in relation to lorries. On this one day, 12 lorries were stopped randomly by City Police. ​

Five of those lorries were involved in the construction work for the 2012 Olympics. ​

All of the twelve lorries were breaking the law in at least one way.​

Repeat: a 100 per cent criminality rate among small random sample of HGVs on the streets of central London. ​

The offences range included overweight loads (2 cases), mechanical breaches (5 cases), driver hours breaches (5 cases), mobile phone use while driving (2 cases), driving without insurance (2 cases) and no operator license (1 case).​

I have a number of emails from some kind people offering me a share of millions of pounds, unfortunately I've been told that these emails were a scam from people that are not kind at all. I've noticed that all these emails seem to be linked in someway to Nigeria, I have therefore come to the following conclusions;
All my scam emails are linked to Nigeria, therefore;
All Nigerians are scammers, therefore;
All Africans are scammers, therefore;
All black people are scammers.

Makes sense to me.

 

[lukesdad]

Thank Gawd all cyclists aren't

 

[BentMikey]

There's a significant lack of being excellent to one another in the later stages of this topic, folks.

 

[gambatte]

There's a significant lack of being excellent to one another in the later stages of this topic, folks.

yeah, I'm not feeling the love, dood...

 

[Boris Bajic]

There's a significant lack of being excellent to one another in the later stages of this topic, folks.

There is. I fear I may be guilty.

Until recently there was disagreement (sometimes profound disagreement) but it was cordial and comments were largely relevant.

Then a poster waded in with negative, unhelpful and insulting generalistations damning all lorry drivers. He gilded the lily of his input with morbid, unhelpful and unrelated mentions of road deaths. Farce entered, stage left, in clown shoes and a purple top hat.

After that it descended into something of a bun fight. The start of the descent can be plotted with some accuracy. Prior to that there was plenty of give & take and a very polite arrangement between Mugshot and benb to agree to disagree.

I enjoyed the debate until that point and now I think it best if I withdraw. Dawesome has brought out the schoolboy in me. Thanks to all who contributed positively - even those with whom I disagree (that's most of you, by the way).

 

[BentMikey]

I wouldn't like to blame any particular person more than any other. I think it's just a case of different types of sixes and half dozens all over the show. I also think that amongst the unkindness, there have been good points made by almost everyone, but they've been ignored in favour of focusing on the petty point scoring and sniping.

 

[dawesome]

Then a poster waded in with negative, unhelpful and insulting generalistations damning all lorry drivers.

HGV drivers are often lawless and dangerous. That's not to say there are some professional firms, the flat bed trucks and scaffolding lorries often seem to be driven by sociopaths. That's not prejudice, it's my own personal experience backed upby police reports.

I've explained that there are some professional HGV drivers. I've also said that random stops of lorries reveal some vehicles considered too dangerous to continue using the roads. You can check this for yourself if you like and look up Operation Mermaid in your county, all the reports are available.

 

[cd365]

If you don't understand why this is a just in case scenario then please do everyone on the road a favor before you cause undue danger to those on the road around you & do one of these things:
1) surrender your driving licence
2 a) buy a copy of road craft, read it, understand it & practice it
2 b) get your self enrolled on an IAM or RoSPA training program & get your AD certificate

So "just in case" a pedestrian runs out in front of me I should drive down a road in an urban environment at 10mph, even at 3am in the morning? No what I should be is be aware of my surroundings and look for any pedestrians. I would also expect a pedestrian to be aware of the dangers whilst trying to cross a road so should help himself to stay alive by also looking and being aware of his surroundings. In my opinion the cyclist did not put himself in a situation where he was looking out for his own safety and wellbeing, I think he was in some sort of “must get in front of the lorry” mode putting himself at risk. Maybe he should give up his cyclist licence because he is a risk to other road users around him.

I have a full driving licence which I have held for nearly 25 years and a full motorcycle licence that I have held for 20 years so I have actually been tested twice as to my ability to use a public highway. I am also tested every year by the company to ensure I am up to standard to use a company vehicle. Being a motorcyclist I am far more aware of what is around me because being knocked off at speed is likely to cause serious injury if not death. I have made a few dodgy overtakes in my time but nothing as stupid as that undertake.

Maybe you should point the idiot cyclist to read road craft because he wasn’t following it and you can guarantee that the lorry driver has not read it or even knows about it.

 

[dawesome]

Maybe he should give up his cyclist licence because he is a risk to other road users around him.

Who was placed at risk by the cyclist, the lorry driver? Do you feel the duty of care is the same for a 200 pound cyclist is the same for a driver in a four ton lorry? The law disagrees with you, because there is no such thing as a "cycling licence". There are a number of regulations that are attached to taking an HGV on the roads, regulations that are routinely flouted by around half of all lorries on the road, and it is these vehicles that are killing people.

 

[cd365]

I said the cyclist is a risk to other road users, not just the lorry.
So no cycling licence then, so anyone can just get on a bike and cycle without knowing what signs mean, what road positioning they should use etc. Surely that is a risk to other road users?

 

[Scoosh]

<Mod hat on>

This thread has probably run its course.

There have been some good points raised and, hopefully, we can all learn something from what has been posted.

Now is a good time to cease any further 'point-scoring'.