Why did headsets change from 1"to 1 1/8"?

[si_c]

I'm not sure what you really mean by "anectodal" yellow saddle. It's 20 years of real life experience, treating one pretty poorly. Or are you saying that my "anectodal" experience has been somehow blessed?

You can't make inferences about a population from a single observation, hence anecdotal. It would be more unexpected to find nobody who has had zero problems with 1" steerers than to find someone like yourself who hasn't.

To try making that inference would be akin to claiming global warming isn't real because it snowed last winter.

 

[froze]

No, steel wasn't the problem, it was the small tubing. Size matters far more than material. Look at the original Cannondale aluminium frames. They were extremely thin, yet stiffer than steel in that particular application. Going from 1" steel to 1 1/8" aluminium make the steerer much stiffer.

This had nothing to do with the headset, the stiffness came from the larger diameter AL headtube whereas a smaller AL headtube would flex, but it was the smaller diameter AL tubing that was flexing not the headset.

 

[Blue Hills]

You can't make inferences about a population from a single observation, hence anecdotal. It would be more unexpected to find nobody who has had zero problems with 1" steerers than to find someone like yourself who hasn't.

To try making that inference would be akin to claiming global warming isn't real because it snowed last winter.

i think you mean 20 winters.

 

[hoopdriver]

I'm not sure what you really mean by "anectodal" yellow saddle. It's 20 years of real life experience, treating one pretty poorly. Or are you saying that my "anectodal" experience has been somehow blessed?

Exactly. There is an awful lot of 'anecdotal' evidence out there - mine included - far too much for it to be coincidence, or so many people being so blessed with good fortune.

 

[hoopdriver]

You can't make inferences about a population from a single observation, hence anecdotal. It would be more unexpected to find nobody who has had zero problems with 1" steerers than to find someone like yourself who hasn't.

To try making that inference would be akin to claiming global warming isn't real because it snowed last winter.

Well there have been several people just on this one thread - me included - who have not had problems with 1" headsets, and by the sounds of things our total combined years of use would be well over a century and many thousands of miles.

Your argument sounds a bit like a statistician who points out that the average man has 1.99999999 legs - which is true, of course, when one averages in people with one leg or none, but this figure, however accurate, does not represent real world experience.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

This had nothing to do with the headset, the stiffness came from the larger diameter AL headtube whereas a smaller AL headtube would flex, but it was the smaller diameter AL tubing that was flexing not the headset.

Read again what I wrote and rethink your response.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I've never heard of any disasters with 1" headsets either, and they were certainly around an awful long time.

Who mentioned disasters?

I explained their primary mode of failure. How do you propose they fail? Ignore secondary modes, which is corrosion.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I've had dozens of 1 inch headsets on bikes, one of bikes with a 1 inch headset has over 150,000 miles on it, and knew a LOT of people who have had these headsets and never did I see a failure, in fact 1 inch headsets were the most reliable part on a bike as long as they were kept properly lubed which wasn't very frequently. In fact I've never even seen a cheap Walmart 1 inch headset fail if it was properly maintained! Granted the Walmart jobs did require much more frequent adjusting and lubing to keep it that way but they never smashed their bearings, or had bearing indentations, the only way a 1" inch headset would suffer that is due to complete and utter poor adjustment without lube and allowed to run like that for an extended period of time.

Well, if you have seen and inspected as many headsets as you claim, then my only explanation is that you don't know what to look for.

I have explained by what mechanism they develop these indentations. You propose that poor adjustment causes that. Would you mind explaining how that happens?

 

[hoopdriver]

All right then, problems.

I've not had any problems with them and by the sounds of things a number of other people on this site have not had problems either, despite long use and over many years.

 

[hoopdriver]

Well, if you have seen and inspected as many headsets as you claim, then my only explanation is that you don't know what to look for.

I have explained by what mechanism they develop these indentations. You propose that poor adjustment causes that. Would you mind explaining how that happens?

Sounds to me a bit like theory meeting real world, and real world coming out on top.

 

[davidphilips]

I have had and still have a few 1 inch head set bikes and have not had to much trouble with them, but if yellowsaddle says Anyone who has used 1" steerers and headsets extensively will know about their primary mode of failure - bearing indentation, then there is a problem with 1 inch headsets and 1 1/8 are a better headset hence the reason for the change.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Sounds to me a bit like theory meeting real world, and real world coming out on top.

You didn't answer the question. How do you propose it happens from poor adjustment?

 

[Crackle]

Well if you put "1" headset primary mode of failure" into Google you get this

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Well if you put "1" headset primary mode of failure" into Google you get this

Or this.

Or this:
on a regular (for example, weekly) basis; or regularly switching between the units so that both are in regular (for example, weekly) operation.

Until recently, bicycle headsets tended to suffer from false brinelling in the "straight ahead" steering position, due to small movements caused by flexing of the fork. Good modern headsets incorporate a plain bearing to accommodate this flexing, leaving the ball race to provide pure rotational movement.

Bearings of modern wind turbines are often affected by false brinelling. Especially the pitch bearing[9], which is used under oscillation, shows often false brinelling damages.[10]

Or this

Or this

Or this

 

[hoopdriver]

You didn't answer the question. How do you propose it happens from poor adjustment?

If you've read my posts you'll see that I did not propose any means of failure. I merely commented on the fact that I, along with a number of other people on this thread, have not suffered problems with 1" steerers, despite collectively speaking, decades of use and many, many thousands of miles.

This reminds me of discussions I see on some photography forums. I am a professional photographer but on these forums I see a great many posts by people who possess great technical knowledge and are obsessed by resolution charts and the minutiae of sensor technology. They lose sight of the fact that for the overwhelming number of photographers, pros included, a camera is a tool and that the practice of photography in the real world is far more than resolution charts or pixel size. Yes a given sensor or lens might outperform another in a lab or resolve a level of detail that will never be visible anyway even on a double page spread in a high quality magazine, but what of it?

To these technology obsessed types it is technology itself that is the end-all and that is fair enough - for them. But to read their dismissals of what in truth are excellent cameras or lenses you would think they were describing Box Brownies, and that no photograph taken before, say, 2010, could possibly have the clarity or colour rendition or resolution to be worth the paper to print it.

I prefer to step back - look at the forest.

People got along fine with 1" steerers for many years.