Why do we accept tubeless, but not waxed chains?

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Bio_Carbon

Regular
I really don't get tubeless, to me it's an unnecessary load of nonsense, but I was wondering: People seem to broadly reject waxed chains, saying it's too much work. Why is that? Here's my point of reasoning: In my opinion tubeless is mostly and option in extreme cases, like cross-country or even cross-continental rides and professional bike racing, when a flat may be the difference between winning or losing, or carrying your bike 20km to the next larger city. Exceptions may be mountain biking where stopping on a trail may pose a serious safety risk.

The problem with tubeless is (in my opinion), is that you have to do a lot of maintenance. With a butyl tube, you may have to change them if they go bad, which may be after half a decade. No big whoop. A puncture is of course always possible, but what's not a possibility, but a guarantee is that your sealant will go bad. So once or twice a year, you'll have to take the old stuff out, possibly change the rim tape and fill new sealant in. I also have broken spokes more frequently than punctures and you know what that means: Taking off the tire, new tape, new sealant. My bike mechanic doesn't even do tubeless, because the money is not as good as cleaning up the mess is bad.

But if you think that's the thing for you, then that's on you. It's your maintenance and if that's fine by you, then do it. The thing I don't get is: Why, in contrast, is waxing your chains so frequently attacked and seen as a thing for pro-cyclists who have peons to do the work for them? Considering the lifespan of a waxing, that's 25km / 15miles every day for a month. It's a clean drivetrain, no de-greasing once a year and always immaculate lubrication, with no sand and other abrasives sticking to it that will grind away on your gears and chain.

The way to do it I'd figure is having 3 chains, waxing them all in one go once a quarter and just putting a new chain on once a month, which is hardly more effort than applying lube and getting the waxy saucepan out once a quarter. But at the same time, such a system would greatly decrease wear. Last time I killed a chain I also had to replace the cassette, because the new chain ended up skipping. That was after just 1000 - 1500 or so kilometers. In the middle of the pandemic, that was one annoying bill to take care of, not mentioning the hassle of getting the cassette at that time.

Why is it that more and more people are open to tubeless but flat-out reject waxing? Personally I see more upsides to waxed chains.
 

sevenfourate

Devotee of OCD
I’m (Very recent convert) now a waxer. The time saved / cleanliness ongoing (After the initial ‘investment’) is “great” 😉

Having seen those around me ‘struggle’ / constantly faff with Tubeless: it’s not something I feel the urge to get into yet…..
 
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Mike Ayling

Mike 1942
Tubeless was brought in because MTB riders were getting pinch flats running their wide tyres at low pressures.
I have been cycling for more than 70 years and am quite comfortable replacing a tube when I am out riding which does not occur very often with modern tyres.
Chains are consumable items which I ride until they reach the 75% mark and then replace. The factory grease usually lasts most of this time.
 

Venod

Eh up
Location
Yorkshire
I'm with Mike on chain front, I just use them until they wear out, I haven't even considered waxing because I don't see the chain as a problem. With tubeless, I ran it on all my bikes for years, never has a ride been stopped by a puncture, I have had them but they always sealed, what I don't like about it is sometimes messy setup up, having said that the last pair I set up was a breeze.
I never change the fluid just top it up but having just removed some tyres to swap them front to back I noticed some fluid under the tape, on removal the fluid (Stans) had corroded the inner rims (aluminium) around some spoke holes.
I am now trialling TPU tubes in my aluminium rims, I am still running tubeless in the MTB but these are carbon rims and from what I have read Stans doesn't rot these.
If TPU tubes are not for me I will go back to tubeless but change fluid brand.
I will investigate chain waxing further and if I consider it worthwhile I might give it a try.
 
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Big T

Legendary Member
Location
Nottingham
You have to reapply the wax every 2-300 miles, that’s once a week for me, not once a month. I’m considering giving waxing a go, but probably drip wax rather than hot waxing. If hot waxing, how often do you use a new quick link? Some quick links are meant to be single use.

Also, how good is waxing in winter with wetter roads, more chance of getting caught in the rain and more road muck about?
 

mustang1

Legendary Member
Location
London, UK
Tubeless makes things simple (well, they do in MTB, not so much on road skinnies).

Waxing chains is a faff.

I roll with WD40! Hey whaddaya mean you shouldn't lube with WD40?
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Photo Winner
Location
Inside my skull
The problem with tubeless is (in my opinion), is that you have to do a lot of maintenance

Generally I fit tubeless, and do not need to do anything with it other than add air now and again, and in summer top up sealant. That is all, often with no punctures in the lifetime of the tyre. No trying to fix punctures in the rain or remove wheels at side of a road. But in the rare case of a roadside puncture, a plug of rubber, with no need to remove wheel from bike, pump tyre up and off you go.

It is hardly a lot of maintenance. What “lot of maintenance” exactly were you doing when you had tubeless?
 
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Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Photo Winner
Location
Inside my skull
You have to reapply the wax every 2-300 miles, that’s once a week for me

This, and during my longer audaxes I would have to do it in the middle of an event.
 
The issue with wax is just perception. Lots of people seem to say that it's 'lots of work', having never tried it. For me, it's less work, not just because actually sticking the chain in a vat of wax takes me less than five minutes total 'work' (removing* chain, waxing, replacing), but also because the bike has no oil on it, so cleaning it is very, very easy. My primary reason for waxing is saving effort and cleanliness, not longevity of components, though that is roughly trebled too.

The tubeless thing comes down to where you feel like doing your maintenance, it seems to me as a tubeless user since 2014. In that time, I've had to stop on the side of the road, spin the wheel a bit, watch it seal, then ride off, a total of definitely fewer than ten times. I once put a plug in. Presumably, in well over 100,000km, I'd have had to change a tube a few times. All my maintenance has been done indoors, and maybe it's more total time than I'd have spent on the road, fixing a puncture, but it's done at a time of my choosing when it's not in any way inconvenient, so that's vastly better; to me, obviously.
 
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sevenfourate

Devotee of OCD
The issue with wax is just perception. Lots of people seem to say that it's 'lots of work', having never tried it. For me, it's less work, not just because actually sticking the chain in a vat of wax takes me less than five minutes total 'work' (removing* chain, waxing, replacing), but also because the bike has no oil on it, so cleaning it is very, very easy. My primary reason for waxing is saving effort and cleanliness, not longevity of components, though that is roughly trebled too.

The tubeless thing comes down to where you feel like doing your maintenance, it seems to me (as a tubeless user since 2014). In that time, I've had top stop on the side of the road, spin the wheel a bit, watch it seal, then ride off, a total of definitely fewer than ten times. I once put a plug in. Presumably, in well over 100,000km, I'd have had to change a tube a few times. All my maintenance has been done indoors, and maybe it's more total time than I'd have spent on the road, fixing a puncture, but it's done at a time of my choosing when it's not in any way inconvenient, so that's vastly better; to me, obviously.

My experience of tubeless (Not me personally; just others I ride with) is probably tainted tbf.

One user is the least disorganised person i know. He’s had deflating issues 3 of the last 4 times he’s joined us. Two of those he supposedly came to a less than perfectly inflated tyre before setting off [Hint: there was the clue] - but carried on without seeing to the matter. Which unsurprisingly just transferred the problems until later on when riding with ‘us’.

The other I can’t vouch for too much. But when it’s repeatedly the same person: there’s probably a reason for that 🤦‍♂️

Fact is though. In 10 stops (?) this year for punctures / deflating tyres etc through and during every ride I’ve done. Only tubeless devotees have caused us to stop. And they are the minority compared to standard innertube guys also….

Maybe not a true reflection / large enough sample to make any sort of meaningful correlation with: but that’s my experience I’m afraid. Is it any wonder I’m ’stuck’ in the dark ages’ with tubes right now 😁
 

PaulSB

Squire
Well I'm obviously the exception. I would never vehemently dismiss any preference as is often the case on here. From time to time I read things on here and think "why?"but I would never go further than posting a reasoned alternative view. Each to his own.

As for tubeless and waxing? I'm a convert to both. To my mind waxing is no more labour intensive than traditional lubes but the end result is significantly better.

After seven years of tubeless and only fitting one tube in that time I feel it's a better system in many ways. Maintenance is negligible. Once a year my bikes get a full service which includes removing the tyres and new sealant etc. In between times I top up the lube. The one tube I tried to fit was after riding over a broken beer bottle. The tyre had a 1cm gash in the sidewall. No system survives this easily.

So, yes, tubeless and wax every day. I quite like di2 as well!!! 🤣🤣
 
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gavroche

Getting old but not past it
Location
North Wales
I am of the old fashioned, traditional type. I use tubes and oil my chain regularly.
I sm lucky as I may have one puncture a year, so no hassle really.
Being of a certain age, ( over 70 ), I ride about 2000 kms per year so nothing as much as some of you.
Having 3 bikes, and all of them being used, my chains last a long time and so do the tyres.
 

Milzy

Legendary Member
I really don't get tubeless, to me it's an unnecessary load of nonsense, but I was wondering: People seem to broadly reject waxed chains, saying it's too much work. Why is that? Here's my point of reasoning: In my opinion tubeless is mostly and option in extreme cases, like cross-country or even cross-continental rides and professional bike racing, when a flat may be the difference between winning or losing, or carrying your bike 20km to the next larger city. Exceptions may be mountain biking where stopping on a trail may pose a serious safety risk.

The problem with tubeless is (in my opinion), is that you have to do a lot of maintenance. With a butyl tube, you may have to change them if they go bad, which may be after half a decade. No big whoop. A puncture is of course always possible, but what's not a possibility, but a guarantee is that your sealant will go bad. So once or twice a year, you'll have to take the old stuff out, possibly change the rim tape and fill new sealant in. I also have broken spokes more frequently than punctures and you know what that means: Taking off the tire, new tape, new sealant. My bike mechanic doesn't even do tubeless, because the money is not as good as cleaning up the mess is bad.

But if you think that's the thing for you, then that's on you. It's your maintenance and if that's fine by you, then do it. The thing I don't get is: Why, in contrast, is waxing your chains so frequently attacked and seen as a thing for pro-cyclists who have peons to do the work for them? Considering the lifespan of a waxing, that's 25km / 15miles every day for a month. It's a clean drivetrain, no de-greasing once a year and always immaculate lubrication, with no sand and other abrasives sticking to it that will grind away on your gears and chain.

The way to do it I'd figure is having 3 chains, waxing them all in one go once a quarter and just putting a new chain on once a month, which is hardly more effort than applying lube and getting the waxy saucepan out once a quarter. But at the same time, such a system would greatly decrease wear. Last time I killed a chain I also had to replace the cassette, because the new chain ended up skipping. That was after just 1000 - 1500 or so kilometers. In the middle of the pandemic, that was one annoying bill to take care of, not mentioning the hassle of getting the cassette at that time.

Why is it that more and more people are open to tubeless but flat-out reject waxing? Personally I see more upsides to waxed chains.

I agree with everything. There’s a YouTube video that explains how Tubeless was a lie. The pressure is too high in road. It works well on big MTB tires.
You can get good cheaper clinchers with a craft cadence thicker TPU tube and get equal rolling resistance scores. No peeling out dry sealant and topping up every 6 months.
They tried to give an answer to a problem which didn’t exist. Same with Hookless rims. Just created danger so they could sell more cheaper made crap.
 
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