Why do we accept tubeless, but not waxed chains?

[Cycling Badger]

Wax or don’t wax. Decide if you’re a waxer and be happy. Not for anyone else to judge. 😃

 

[scotsbikester]

Tubeless? Well the set up works for the motor industry, so why is it such a faff for bicycles?

Here's what the internet says:

"Tubeless car tyres and tubeless bicycle tyres use the same basic concept of holding air without an inner tube, but they are built and installed differently. [1]

Key Similarities

• • No Inner Tube: Neither design uses a separate rubber tube to trap air.
  • The Bead Seal: Both rely on the stiff edge of the tyre (the bead) pressing tightly against the metal wheel rim to form an airtight seal. [1, 2, 3]

Key Differences

• • Liquid Sealant: Tubeless bicycle setups almost always require a liquid latex sealant poured inside to plug microscopic leaks in the porous sidewalls and spoke holes. Tubeless car tyres are thick, heavy, and rubber-lined enough to hold air entirely on their own without any liquid sealant. [1, 2, 3]
  • Rigidity and Installation: Car tyres have thick, rigid steel-belted sidewalls and require heavy-duty mechanical machines to force them onto the metal rim. Bicycle tyres are flexible and light enough to be mounted by hand using basic tools. [1]
  • Rim Complexity: Car wheels are solid, one-piece metal units manufactured to be airtight out of the box. Bicycle wheels have spoke holes drilled through the center channel, meaning the rim bed must be meticulously sealed with special rim tape before it can hold air. [1]"

 

[scotsbikester]

Wax or don’t wax. Decide if you’re a waxer and be happy. Not for anyone else to judge. 😃

There's a difference. I've used liquid oil lube on my chain. I've also used wax on my chain. I've done BOTH things. Whereas the "waxing is such a faff, it's just for OCD morons" etc. etc. brigade have only used oil lubes.

 

[Webbo2]

I've got a watch with a chronograph. I'm going to time it, right now....

...
OK, chain off, stood up, mime getting another chain off the hook, chain back on. 2 minutes 43.61 seconds (yes, an analogue chronograph that does 100ths of a second!). Bit slow, but it was on the floor. Would be faster if it was on the stand.

So let's say I do that every 200 miles. At my average speed of 11 mph that's 18.1818 hours, which is 1,090.90 minutes. So the chain switchover is adding 0.25208333% to the time I spend cycling.

BTW, I'm a very recent convert to waxing, so I'm not that practised with the Connex quicklink. I'm sure I'll get faster. Though I did bend a bit of old mudguard stay into a thing to make it easier.

Maybe it seems like a faff because the filthy oil people don't do it very often. Strange as it may seem, it is actually possible to learn new things. Who'd have thunk it?

Oh, and my hands are clean. I'll make my tea now.

EDIT. I'm just wondering if there's some way to use the chain that's coming off to thread the chain that's going on through the derailleurs. That can be my next experiment. Threading the chain through the derailleurs, especially the RD pulley wheels, is the slightly finicky part.

So your changing your chain every 200 miles so for me that would every 10 days. You ride at 11 miles an hour. Are you riding up 10% hills for all your ride or does your bike weigh 30K. For most people you are somewhat of an outlier, slow speeds and low miles. That doesn’t give some of us much information on how effective waxing your chain is.
Sorry Scot it’s not a great sell. However Dorsetboy gives a better sell.

 

[a.twiddler]

Here's what the internet says:

"Tubeless car tyres and tubeless bicycle tyres use the same basic concept of holding air without an inner tube, but they are built and installed differently. [1]

Key Similarities

• • No Inner Tube: Neither design uses a separate rubber tube to trap air.
  • The Bead Seal: Both rely on the stiff edge of the tyre (the bead) pressing tightly against the metal wheel rim to form an airtight seal. [1, 2, 3]

Key Differences

• • Liquid Sealant: Tubeless bicycle setups almost always require a liquid latex sealant poured inside to plug microscopic leaks in the porous sidewalls and spoke holes. Tubeless car tyres are thick, heavy, and rubber-lined enough to hold air entirely on their own without any liquid sealant. [1, 2, 3]
  • Rigidity and Installation: Car tyres have thick, rigid steel-belted sidewalls and require heavy-duty mechanical machines to force them onto the metal rim. Bicycle tyres are flexible and light enough to be mounted by hand using basic tools. [1]
  • Rim Complexity: Car wheels are solid, one-piece metal units manufactured to be airtight out of the box. Bicycle wheels have spoke holes drilled through the center channel, meaning the rim bed must be meticulously sealed with special rim tape before it can hold air. [1]"

As I said, once using tubeless on cycles is cheap and simple it is more likely to appeal to the everyday cyclist.

In motorcycle use spoked wheels are available which allow tubeless tyres to be used as the spokes don't pierce the rim, using a H section, so it's not impossible. Getting the rim weight down might be more of a challenge. Long distance off road motorcycle riders have also managed to use tubed tyres without the tubes on spoked wheels in the same manner that cyclists have, usually on wide low pressure tyres. I imagine these tyres with their relatively heavy side walls were non porous. Similarly, cycle tyres for tubeless ought to be non porous and it's not beyond the wit of man to produce a sidewall that's both thin and non porous. Getting the cost down would probably be the biggest obstacle in the beginning but it would get away from all the sloppiness of sealant gluing up your wheels and valves. Even with all this, it could be that narrow high pressure tyres might still need sealant to be reliable.

 

[scotsbikester]

So your changing your chain every 200 miles so for me that would every 10 days. You ride at 11 miles an hour. Are you riding up 10% hills for all your ride or does your bike weigh 30K. For most people you are somewhat of an outlier, slow speeds and low miles. That doesn’t give some of us much information on how effective waxing your chain is.
Sorry Scot it’s not a great sell. However Dorsetboy gives a better sell.

I ride a bike the way I do. You do your way.

The main reason for waxing my chain is cleanliness. As I've said. Over and over and over again. Maybe you missed that? I've now got the cleanliness I wanted. If you're happy with oil, fine, carry on. Be happy with the mess, it's not for me. I've tried oil. Have you tried wax?

 

[Ian H]

Can I just say:

Anyone still using rim brakes is an idiot and a luddite.

I say old chap, do you mind terribly if I call you a prat.