Why don't modern bikes need less maintenance?

[boydj]

The point you are missing about cars is that in many ways they are a lot more complex now than they ever were. Most modern cars now have electronic engine management systems which are way beyond the amateur mechanic to service or even to diagnose problems. While service intervals are typically longer than they used to be, this is all to do with advances in oil technology combined with more reliable electronics. Improved reliability has come from the same improved manufacturing techniques with better tolerances that has seen us move from 5/6 speed to 11 speed. Beware the advent of electronic shifting and the impact on the home mechanic.

 

[Linford]

But cars have got lighter over the years and are now much more reliable and need less maintenance.
It's not so much the catastrophic failures that I am on about, it is the day to day maintenance that the car industry seems to have succeeded in getting away from. They have done it so what's stopping the bike industry?

They have got considerably heavier over the years.

Multi valve engines, abs systems, additional soundproofing, bigger wheels and tyres, bigger brakes, air bags, bigger seats.....this list goes on and on. The difference between a Mk1 and Mk7 Golf is about 200kg
Car brake calipers have gaitors around the pistons to keep the crud away from them. My motorbike (like all modern ones) has none of that and whilst the brakes are enormously powerful, have very little protection from the elements...just a thin o-ring on each piston to act as a dust seal. Redesigning them with gaitors like car calipers would make them much heavier, and increase the unsprung weight...which messes with the handling big time. Cycles are much the same...all done for weight saving. Chain is the best way of transferring power to the wheels, belts or drive shafts and planetary gears aren't.

 

[nickyboy]

Really?

yup
http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/bildstrecke/3/

But more generally, cars, washing machines, televisions, watches, whatever....all are becoming much more reliable, requiring less maintenance. I'm not sure that's happening with bikes. Perhaps the fundamentals of bike design had already been perfected years ago and this is as good as it's going to get?

 

[Arch]

I have a summer bike (derailleur, rim brakes) and a winter bike (hub gear, hub brakes). I swap them over every six months or so, and at that point, they may get maintained. Or not.

I'm fairly sure a car wouldn't cope with that.

 

[ufkacbln]

The other issue is whether there is a cost to this reliability

The family car is now no longer something that you can tweak of tune without a computer system for the timing, sealed units that need replacing as a whole and then checked with another computing system.. Much of this needs to be done at the dealer

I prefer the ability to be able to modify or replace on a bicycle rather than a maintenance free machine that I cannot personalise

 

[simon.r]

The point you are missing about cars is that in many ways they are a lot more complex now than they ever were. Most modern cars now have electronic engine management systems which are way beyond the amateur mechanic to service or even to diagnose problems. While service intervals are typically longer than they used to be, this is all to do with advances in oil technology combined with more reliable electronics. Improved reliability has come from the same improved manufacturing techniques with better tolerances that has seen us move from 5/6 speed to 11 speed. Beware the advent of electronic shifting and the impact on the home mechanic.

I assume that diagnosing electrical problems on a bike is easier than on a car, mainly due to the much smaller number of 'black boxes' on a bike. I'll happily be corrected on this, but I'd guess that if an electronic bit goes wrong on a bike it's thrown away rather than repaired. Which, to be fair, is what we do on standard bikes - front mechs aren't repaired*, just replaced. Cost is the obvious issue, but if and when electronic shifting filters down to cheaper bikes it will, by definition, be cheaper to replace.

*Awaits post from someone who has just spent 3 weeks refurbishing a front mech

 

[simon.r]

I have a summer bike (derailleur, rim brakes) and a winter bike (hub gear, hub brakes). I swap them over every six months or so, and at that point, they may get maintained. Or not.

I'm fairly sure a car wouldn't cope with that.

Modern cars can easily cope with that.

20,000 mile service intervals aren't unusual. I'll be surprised if I have to do anything to mine before 20,000 miles, with the exception of checking the tyre pressures and oil level and filling up the screenwash bottle a few times.

 

[Dan B]

yup
http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/bildstrecke/3/

From http://www.treehugger.com/cars/no-wonder-fuel-economy-is-stagnant-cars-ballooned-up-since-1980.html which I don't claim is an unbiased site, but the graphs do seem to fit my perception that cars are getting bigger and heavier not lighter - look at old Mini vs new Mini, or the growth of the Golf. A modern Polo looks bigger than the Golfs of previous decades

 

[Linford]

yup
http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/bildstrecke/3/

But more generally, cars, washing machines, televisions, watches, whatever....all are becoming much more reliable, requiring less maintenance. I'm not sure that's happening with bikes. Perhaps the fundamentals of bike design had already been perfected years ago and this is as good as it's going to get?

I think what they actually mean is 'like for like' components. We use special steels with greater wear properties, or greater ability to withstand the bending stresses, and we use multiple tempering cycles as well as nitriding (surface hardening) to give a hard crust around a soft and pliable core. It doesn't allow us much scope on changing the designs muck though.

You can't get away from the fact that whilst these individual components might be getting lighter, they are also adding every toy unther the sun around them. I also forgot Mk1 Golf...a fan heater, manual windows, manual locking. Mk7 Golf = climate control, central locking, electric windows all around, and a big multi speaker stereo.

 

[Matthew_T]

Has anyone heard about belt driven bikes? Basically a rubber belt to replace a chain.

I think that if every bike had one, they would be a lot cleaner, need less maintenance, and possibly cost less (its just grooved rubber afterall).
Whoever designs the system will surely be in the money.

 

[simon.r]

...but the graphs do seem to fit my perception that cars are getting bigger and heavier not lighter - look at old Mini vs new Mini, or the growth of the Golf. A modern Polo looks bigger than the Golfs of previous decades

You're right. I drove a Mondeo estate about 20 year ago. I was looking at new Fords recently and I reckon the current Focus is about the same size as the 20 year old Mondeo was.

I'd guess that the weight increase is due to a combination of that and the extra equipment that is more or less standard now and wasn't 20 years ago - things like airbags, power steering, ABS and so on.

 

[mcshroom]

yup
http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/bildstrecke/3/

But more generally, cars, washing machines, televisions, watches, whatever....all are becoming much more reliable, requiring less maintenance. I'm not sure that's happening with bikes. Perhaps the fundamentals of bike design had already been perfected years ago and this is as good as it's going to get?

Some data - I chose a Ford Escort/focus as they are very common.

Mk1 Escort - 767kg
Mk6 Escort - 1080kg
Mk1 Focus - 1080kg
Mk2 Focus - 1248kg

They are getting heavier

 

[black'n'yellow]

Has anyone heard about belt driven bikes? Basically a rubber belt to replace a chain.

I think that if every bike had one, they would be a lot cleaner, need less maintenance, and possibly cost less (its just grooved rubber afterall).
Whoever designs the system will surely be in the money.

try running a belt drive with a 10 or 11 speed setup...

 

[Rob3rt]

Has anyone heard about belt driven bikes? Basically a rubber belt to replace a chain.

I think that if every bike had one, they would be a lot cleaner, need less maintenance, and possibly cost less (its just grooved rubber afterall).
Whoever designs the system will surely be in the money.

I am not sure the point you are trying to make or the question you are asking, if you are asking whether they exist, the answer is yes, there are some single speed ones and some with hub gears. However the frame must be hinged to get the belt in and out, as you can not break it and rejoin it like a chain.

 

[simon.r]

try running a belt drive with a 10 or 11 speed setup...

I'm surprised that no-one has yet come up with a good constantly variable transmission suitable for a bike, using a belt.