Why is there not more cycle storage on trains?

[661-Pete]

Problem is trying to get out sometimes, because people tend to stand in the doorway, even though there are plenty of seat free for them.

I've had that problem too. Sometimes I think, there ought to be a rule against standing when there is seating available. But then again - maybe when the only available seat is next to a disreputable-looking male (like yours truly) I can understand why some women may not wish to take the option....

Reminds me of the time-honoured rule (is it still in force?) prohibiting standing on the top deck of a double-deck bus. But I think that was because it might invalidate the old tilt test:

 

[Coco]

The problem is, there is no incentive for private company to do anything about it. By providing extra bike spaces they will lose some seats. AFAIK bikes (or their owners) don't buy tickets. Sitters on seats do. So with finite space on a train they are always going to do what the paying public wants and generally this is more seats on trains.

 

[Ticktockmy]

The 'class 377' electric units, the mainstay of Southern Region, are no better: these are 4-car units with space for just two bikes right opposite the disabled toilets: so that (a) disabled people complain about you blocking their access; (b) trouble on late trains with drunks throwing up; (c ) if you want to be near your bike have to sit on uncomfortable jump seat; (d ) not a pleasant view! You can in practice get three or four bikes in the space, but only until the guard walks by....

The Thameslink (sorry: "FCC") 'class 319' trains are a bit better: they have wide door lobbies and you can usually leave your bike in one of those. But when the train approaches a station watch which side the platform is - or see your bike fall out when someone opens the door....

As a regular user of the Southern Class 377 Electrostar, I did write to them pointing out that for most journeys the amount of first class passengers’ usage was minimal, and i felt that the 8 seat first class compartment at one end of the 4 car unit could well be stripped out and have bike racks installed. My own guess is that they could get 8 bikes in that space, thus giving 10 spaces per 4 car unit. But 8 weeks on no reply as of yet.

 

[PBancroft]

The problem is, there is no incentive for private company to do anything about it. By providing extra bike spaces they will lose some seats. AFAIK bikes (or their owners) don't buy tickets. Sitters on seats do. So with finite space on a train they are always going to do what the paying public wants and generally this is more seats on trains.

Yep. The problem is a large chunk of the time the existing storage is likely to go unused. There is demand for space, but not all day, every day - whereas on many routes the opposite is true for more seats. Increasing more storage space for commutes or occasional usage takes away spaces for seating which could be used anytime. Sad but, although I have nothing to back this up with, I suspect true.

 

[hackbike 666]

Used to be plenty of bike space in the olden days but the railways have changed and now it more about bums on seats and not bikes which take up valuable space...

 

[Number14]

Only some. On Arriva, I think it's in Coach B (there isn't always a coach B though). Cycle Spaces are in Coach C on these trains (there's always a coach C).

Most annoying person on the train I get was an extremely rude lady sat in the middle seat of the 3 where bikes normally go. Left her to it for a couple of stops, but had to ask her to move once another couple of bikes got on (otherwise we'd have blocked the aisle). She was uncommonly graceless in her agreement to move.

Stand your bike across the front of the space with the back wheel just supported by the adjacent toilet wall or hand rail. It stays perfectly upright until the train accelerates fast or hits the points and then it will move forward/backward and fall over - usually towards the seats (especially if a pannier is on the seat side). Cue some whining from the seat occupant who may now be contaminated by bike dirt but a polite explanation that the seat is allocated ofr bikes and there was no other space to put the bike should result in a prompt move to another seat.

Tried it twice and it works well.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

As a regular user of the Southern Class 377 Electrostar, I did write to them pointing out that for most journeys the amount of first class passengers’ usage was minimal, and i felt that the 8 seat first class compartment at one end of the 4 car unit could well be stripped out and have bike racks installed. My own guess is that they could get 8 bikes in that space, thus giving 10 spaces per 4 car unit. But 8 weeks on no reply as of yet.

Yes, I hardly ever see anyone in the first class bits. I make it ten seats in first class, at both ends of a 4 car train.

As you suggest, vertical storage in one of those first class bits could quite easily fit ten bikes. Swiss trains have three vertical storage slots at the end of every carriage!

But of course, there's more £££££ for Southern in paying passenger seats* than there is for bike slots - probably needs government legislation to force train companies to provide it.

*I think Southern are planning to remove toilets from their Portsmouth to Brighton service, to get more seats in. That shows you where they're coming from.

 

[Headgardener]

Yes, I hardly ever see anyone in the first class bits. I make it ten seats in first class, at both ends of a 4 car train.

As you suggest, vertical storage in one of those first class bits could quite easily fit ten bikes. Swiss trains have three vertical storage slots at the end of every carriage!

But of course, there's more £££££ for Southern in paying passenger seats* than there is for bike slots - probably needs government legislation to force train companies to provide it.

*I think Southern are planning to remove toilets from their Portsmouth to Brighton service, to get more seats in. That shows you where they're coming from.

Are you supposed to dangle it out of the window then when you need a leak?

 

[TheBoyBilly]

This is Southern you're talking about. They have no interest about the paying public (much like Connex before- same managers, same sh*t) Travel on any train and you will find inadequate bike storage. Yet still they bring in older stock with even LESS room for bikes. They have no idea (read interest) about integrated travel. I hate Southern, I really do. Chris Birchill talks the talk but is ultimately useless (unless you are a Southern stakeholder).

Bill

 

[Firestorm]

Used to be plenty of bike space in the olden days but the railways have changed and now it more about bums on seats and not bikes which take up valuable space...

my dad was telling me the other day about a touring holiday he went on in the 50's where the regulations were that you could not take a bike on the train if it was rideable , they had to take bits off the bike in order to use the train. apparently pedals were the first things to be removed, followed by the wheels......And they still had the odd guard dispute whether the bike was rideable.

This was in the days of the guards van taking anything bulky as they could not fit much in the carriages

 

[John the Monkey]

Stand your bike across the front of the space with the back wheel just supported by the adjacent toilet wall or hand rail. It stays perfectly upright until the train accelerates fast or hits the points and then it will move forward/backward and fall over - usually towards the seats (especially if a pannier is on the seat side). Cue some whining from the seat occupant who may now be contaminated by bike dirt but a polite explanation that the seat is allocated ofr bikes and there was no other space to put the bike should result in a prompt move to another seat.

Heh :-)

I'm not quite that passive aggressive!

I don't mind standing with the bike, tbh - I do mind needlessly blocking the aisles & inconveniencing other people though. Whilst there was just me on with the bike, there was no need for her to move. Once more cyclists & bikes boarded, the only was to accomodate the cycles safely was for her to move.

 

[dondare]

I used to travel by train in the days of slam-doors and big guard's vans. There was room for all the cyclists who used the service and much more besides. In defence of the train companies, it does make sense to maximize the seating because everyone travelling by train is one less motorist. Losing the guards van allowed an extra carriage for passengers. (Who could take a Brompton if they wanted to cycle from the station.)

 

[ianrauk]

Reading about all these nightmare train companies.
Would like to balance this up with the brilliant way that South Eastern operate their bike policy.

Rush hour they do stick to their 'only folding bike' policy.

However non rush hour they don't mind at all seeing the whole train taken up with bikes.
It seem's to be a righto, we should be able to get you all on attitude. The guards are more often then not
bike friendly and will often ask people sitting in the bike/pram area to move.
Can't fault South Eastern at all.

 

[Ticktockmy]

Yes, I hardly ever see anyone in the first class bits. I make it ten seats in first class, at both ends of a 4 car train.

As you suggest, vertical storage in one of those first class bits could quite easily fit ten bikes. Swiss trains have three vertical storage slots at the end of every carriage!

But of course, there's more £££££ for Southern in paying passenger seats* than there is for bike slots - probably needs government legislation to force train companies to provide it.

*I think Southern are planning to remove toilets from their Portsmouth to Brighton service, to get more seats in. That shows you where they're coming from.

They already have replaced the Brigton/Seaford route with none toilet rolling stock, but they have plenty of rooms for cycles.. but I hear they will be putting more toilets on the stations, seem if you want a pee or pooh, you will need to get off the train to use the toilets then catch the next train.

 

[2_Flat_erics]

We have two train companies operating out of Southend.

C2C into Fenchurch Street. Folding bikes only during peak times. At other times there is space for two or three bikes in the third carriage in each four carriage block. This space is also designated for disabled and pushchairs and is also where the toilets are. Unofficially you can also get a bike in the doorway of any of the carriages but you need to keep an eye open for which side the platform is at each station.

National Express East Anglia into Liverpool Street. Again folding bikes only during peak times. At all other times the only place to leave a bike is in the doorway so again need to keep an eye on the platforms.

It gets very very interesting once a year when the London to Southend charity ride is on. Imagine 6 AM on a Sunday morning, Southend Victoria station with hundreds of cyclists queuing around the block to get on the train. A special service is laid on but that fills up in minutes leaving huge numbers to still get on the scheduled services. It is quite an eye opener just how many bikes can be squeezed into each carriage when you really try. Bikes upended and hung by the handlebars from the luggage rail. bikes slotted between seats all down the carriage and then the isles filled up as well. God knows what would happen if their was an accident. The look on the regular Sunday morning commuters faces is a picture to behold