Why is there not more cycle storage on trains?

[hackbike 666]

I remember the Wessex Electrics down the Bournemouth/Weymouth road becoming a nightmare.....They decreased the guards brake space to put more 16 seats in (I think it was)...There was tons of trouble with bikes after that for months and months because obviously the bike carrying capacity was decreased...Those units now work on the Gatwick Express.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

I'll give Southern a good kicking when they deserve it, but in this instance they don't. They are not removing toilets, they are redeploying stock that never had toilets in the first place. And they are putting in cycle/wheelchair spaces. Wheelchair spaces they are legally obliged to provide. All in order to increase capacity because that is what their fare paying passengers on that route have been complaining about. They have done the homework, they have consulted and now people are willfully misinterpreting the results. Possibly you advocate for toilet provision on Brighton & Hove or Portmouth buses? Somehow I doubt it.

Southern bashing does get a bit "What have the Romans ever done for us?" at times. imo people's memories of slam door stock and guard vans are sepia tinted nostagia for the non-existent good old days.

and as others have said; why not get a folding bike?

A mea culpa.

I do genuinely like Southern as a company. They're certainly far better than the Thameslink, or whatever they're called now. The staff are good, trains are nice, generally on time, et cetera.

Also, I don't have a problem with trains on short-ish stints not having toilets. Frankly people should be able to control their bladders for an hour or so. I guess I got taken in by the hysterical-style reporting I might have glanced at

.

(Southern's cycling provision is not great though - South West in my experience seem a little better. And of course neither are a patch on my experience of trains on the continent.)

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Not really. I may be old fashioned but I've always been dubious about bikes that fold in half in case they do it at an inopportune time!! Plus, totally from a vanity point of view, I don't really want to be in my cycle gear, peddling like holy hell down a dual carriageway sat in an upright position my mother would be proud off

Dahon Speed Pro TT and selected stablemates, Airnimal, Bike Friday, even some contemporary Bromptons are plenty sporty. If I could only have one bike it would be a top end folder. until then n+1 rules!

 

[jonesy]

I don't think it's the managers...I think it's called PRIVATISATION.

Then again the 455's and the 315's (Early 1980's built trains) were built with no bike spaces...

Well quite. It isn't privatisation, or the managers, it is capacity. There are vastly more people travelling by train these days, so space for people has to take priority above space for bikes. That problem would exist whoever owned the trains.

 

[Ste T.]

I cant praise Merseyrail enough. Each train has at least 4 bike slots , but in addition to these you can stand with your bike in the space where the doors are. Its not unseen for 6 or 8 cyclists on a 3 carriage train. I dont know if this is a North/South thing, but everybody seems to get along fine and non cyclists are usually very understanding. A smile and a "sorry" go a long way.
Not so long ago they had a very unhelpful cycle policy, no rush hour travel , guards discretion etc. Then they had some sort of conversion on the road to Damasus and turned into one of the best around. They are in the middle of a revamp of the station cycle facilties and the guards are always helpful.

 

[dellzeqq]

As a regular user of the Southern Class 377 Electrostar, I did write to them pointing out that for most journeys the amount of first class passengers’ usage was minimal, and i felt that the 8 seat first class compartment at one end of the 4 car unit could well be stripped out and have bike racks installed. My own guess is that they could get 8 bikes in that space, thus giving 10 spaces per 4 car unit. But 8 weeks on no reply as of yet.

you're not going to get one. Southern management would get rid of every cycle space they have if their franchise agreement would let them. Mercifully the Southern staff are, in the main, helpfullness personified.

 

[dellzeqq]

I personally hate the way, sitting there with my bike, I'm treated like some kind of glorified toilet attendant.

"Is anyone in there?"
"How long have they been in there?"
"How do you open it?"
"How do you lock it?"
"How do you close it?"

et cetera.

think of it as your good deed for the day. And, if you know where the smaller cubicle is, you can direct your fellow passengers to it when the curved door has jammed.

 

[Jezston]

think of it as your good deed for the day. And, if you know where the smaller cubicle is, you can direct your fellow passengers to it when the curved door has jammed.

What is with those bathrooms? What exactly is the benefit of them?

Surely someone at these train companies, always trying to cram more passenger space into their trains, looked at these things and said "yes, these are a good use of space and will suit our customers well, as opposed to the traditional much more space efficient toilets that everyone knows how to use".

 

[mark barker]

Well quite. It isn't privatisation, or the managers, it is capacity. There are vastly more people travelling by train these days, so space for people has to take priority above space for bikes. That problem would exist whoever owned the trains.

A potential solution would be to charge for carrying bikes. If the train company didn't lose money by making the provision then I'm sure they'd be more inclined to offer more spaces.

 

[dellzeqq]

What is with those bathrooms? What exactly is the benefit of them?

Surely someone at these train companies, always trying to cram more passenger space into their trains, looked at these things and said "yes, these are a good use of space and will suit our customers well, as opposed to the traditional much more space efficient toilets that everyone knows how to use".

wheelchair access - and that's the difficulty. The door jumps off the bottom rail, because it is nigh-on flat. Oh - and they block. Apparently British poos are a bit bigger than the Italian jobbies.

In fairness to those worried about the toiletless 377s on the South Coast line - there was an intention at one point to run toiletless trains from Brighton to Portsmouth but the RMT and others got shirty about it. I think I'm right in saying that the now only toiletless trains will be on the Brighton to Hove shuttle. I'm told that the smarter, later 377s are all being moved north to south London suburban lines to add to the lustre of the Olympics.

 

[Bollo]

I remember the Wessex Electrics down the Bournemouth/Weymouth road becoming a nightmare.....They decreased the guards brake space to put more 16 seats in (I think it was)...There was tons of trouble with bikes after that for months and months because obviously the bike carrying capacity was decreased...Those units now work on the Gatwick Express.

I remember them. Horrendous, like doing one of those little wooden fit-together puzzles.

 

[Bollo]

you're not going to get one. Southern management would get rid of every cycle space they have if their franchise agreement would let them. Mercifully the Southern staff are, in the main, helpfullness personified.

SWT too, I suspect. SWT staff have (with one exception many years ago) been thoroughly pragmatic in their dealings with bikes over the years.

Sometimes I feel the bike spaces are hugely overengineered. My favourites spaces are on the 450s - it's just a big space against the bulkhead. I've seen 7 bikes comfortably arranged there without blocking the aisle. The only probelm comes when someone with issues decides to sit on the pulldown seats, rendering the entire bike area null and void. Only ever happens on an empty train as well.

The wheelbenders on the 444s are just crap and the area is usually full of luggage. The bike cabinets on the Voyagers are bizarre - they take loads of space up for the benefit of three hanging bikes. It's almost impossible to manoeuvre two bikes into the double cabinet and the flat handlebars on my commuter are too wide to fit through the arbitrarily narrow entrance.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

What is with those bathrooms? What exactly is the benefit of them?

Surely someone at these train companies, always trying to cram more passenger space into their trains, looked at these things and said "yes, these are a good use of space and will suit our customers well, as opposed to the traditional much more space efficient toilets that everyone knows how to use".

as dell says if you are a service provider DDA requires your services to be accessible. surely ending discrimination against the disabled in the supply of goods and services is a 'good thing'?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

A potential solution would be to charge for carrying bikes. If the train company didn't lose money by making the provision then I'm sure they'd be more inclined to offer more spaces.

My understanding is that would require primary legislation and I for one would protest. I use services that serve Gatwick Airport. Should we charge airline passengers for bringing their luggage? If not why not? Volume wise their bags take up more space than my bike. They also take up seats as the trains don't have sufficient luggage rack capacity.

What is missing is the imagination on behalf of the designers/operators to install flip up seating in say 50% of every carriage to give genuine flexibility of use morning noon and night. unfortunately this would have my local bellends screaming at the guard "I pay £4500 a year for my season ticket and it doesn't entitle me to a seat? Are you insane?"

 

[GrumpyGregry]

you're not going to get one. Southern management would get rid of every cycle space they have if their franchise agreement would let them. Mercifully the Southern staff are, in the main, helpfullness personified.

There is evidence to the contrary in the shires, though they'd much rather you left a bike at both ends than take an ordinary on the train. They recently moderated the approach to large wheeled folders for example. They are doing a good deal to improve cycle storage on our sub suburban line stations and we are seeing an increase in the use of this. (only to have BTP come along and plaster "THis is a cycle theft hot spot" stickers over everything seems a little counter productive.)

The hoped for Southern Brompton Hire service is not to be it seems. Appaz the SWT scheme is not judged profitable practical....

I think you must get a different type of chap working the railways in sarf lundun. All of ours have personality disorders; nice as pie one day, helpful polite and reasonable then totally pedantic numpties the next when the various tiers of 'enforcement' officers are around. Operation Volcanic has a lot to answer for, but, as I wish a pox on all fare dodgers, I guess I should be grateful that they are tackling the issue.