Woman admits A32 Wickham cyclist death

[Drago]

Took Woman to an early Hospital appointment this morning, when suddenly the low sun poked me in the face and blinded me completely. Fortunately I'd been paying attention and driving at an appropriate speed, so was able to safely stop to the left. A quick wile of the screen and a rummage about for my Randolphs and I was safely on my way again.

So easy and took seconds, and I just can't get my head round why the killer driver that motivated this post couldn't be arsed to also behave sensibly. To carry on driving when you can't see is clearly an highly deliberate and considered act, and the law should allow for a much more serious penalty for someone who chose to drive in that manner. It was no 'accident' as her brief implies, but the result of a wilful and deliberate disregard for both the law and the safety of those around her.

 

[glenn forger]

Is there an increase in cyclists riding into things when there's a low sun? I've never heard of it.

 

[Drago]

Dammit man. Day after day you're saying stuff that has me nodding sagely in agreement. Where's our Glenn, and what have you done with him?

 

[Drago]

Bloody Hell, now I'm agreeing with User.

I need a Doctor...

 

[theclaud]

Right. OK. That's me, my father and my wife all with life bans (it wasn't motorcycles, but it could have been). How many people do you think would actually have licences under your regime?

And how do you revoke a licence without criminal charges?

Apologies if I'm not reading this right, but are you telling us that you've killed someone with a motor vehicle?

 

[Spud Murphy]

Blinded by the low sun, yet continued to plough forth doggedly despite being unable to see. The punishment is derisory.

Can't see? Then stop immediately and potentially save a life.

Totally agree.

 

[jefmcg]

Right. OK. That's me, my father and my wife all with life bans (it wasn't motorcycles, but it could have been). How many people do you think would actually have licences under your regime?

And how do you revoke a licence without criminal charges?

Apologies if I'm not reading this right, but are you telling us that you've killed someone with a motor vehicle?

+1. I just plowed through 4 pages of this to see if this had been clarified.

(and the way I read it, that's three people who have killed in accidents they were at fault in)

 

[theclaud]

+1. I just plowed through 4 pages of this to see if this had been clarified.

(and the way I read it, that's three people who have killed in accidents they were at fault in)

Thanks for that. As no-one appeared to be reacting to this breathtaking revelation, I thought there must be some obvious alternative explanation I was missing. If we're wrong, I hope @Karlt will clarify...

 

[fossyant]

Sorry Mate I Did't See You is apparently an acceptable excuse, and so is low sun.

Too many drivers get away with killing people or badly injuring them.

 

[Drago]

Sorry Mate I Did't See You is apparently an acceptable excuse, and so is low sun.

That's how Adrian makes people disappear.

 

[jefmcg]

this is now officially disturbing. @theclaud and I both interpreted a posting from @Karlt the same way. He had been responding to pretty well every posting in this thread (15 responses in 4 pages - is that a record for anyone who didn't start the thread?), then suddenly went silent.

@Karlt have you killed someone? I am totally ready to back down, but you need to answer this.

 

[Buddfox]

this is no officially disturbing. @theclaud and I both interpreted a posting from @Karlt the same way. He had been responding to pretty well every posting in this thread (15 responses in 4 pages - is that a record for anyone who didn't start the thread?), then suddenly went silent.

@Karlt have you killed someone? I am totally ready to back down, but you need to answer this.

I was asking myself the same question as well, so that makes three of us!

 

[Karlt]

this is now officially disturbing. @theclaud and I both interpreted a posting from @Karlt the same way. He had been responding to pretty well every posting in this thread (15 responses in 4 pages - is that a record for anyone who didn't start the thread?), then suddenly went silent.

@Karlt have you killed someone? I am totally ready to back down, but you need to answer this.

No, I haven't. Nor have any of us. However, I can see how it could happen as a result of a fairly minor error on the part of a driver, which was my point - there's not necessarily correlation between the error committed by the driver and its outcome. I stopped responding because I have a lot on my plate and didn't have the emotional spoons to carry on at that point.

It can even happen as a result of a momentary lapse of concentration which it was stated further upthread would not meet the bar for careless driving.

I'm also not implying that this is the case in many of the cases we discuss on here, but in this particular case we don't have enough information about the incident to know.

The whole thing is a response to the first reply in this thread, really, "how much a life is worth". Sentencing for CD offenses, like manslaughter offences (which they strongly resemble, and indeed were brought in to replace because of lack of convictions for manslaughter) is largely focused on the culpability of the offender - how serious the action they took was. It's not meant to reflect the value of a life.

 

[Buddfox]

The whole thing is a response to the first reply in this thread, really, "how much a life is worth". Sentencing for CD offenses, like manslaughter offences (which they strongly resemble, and indeed were brought in to replace because of lack of convictions for manslaughter) is largely focused on the culpability of the offender - how serious the action they took was. It's not meant to reflect the value of a life.

But many of us feel like it should, and I'm not sure you've made a convincing argument that it shouldn't. An outcome is always relevant in considering a criminal prosecution, and if driving is unique in the distortion between error and outcome, so what?

As has been pointed out - driving is a right, not a privilege; having your licence taken away is not the significant inconvenience many believe it to be; more people than not want a justice system that recognises outcome as relevant, and this is even considered today through victim impact statements being read in court.

I'd be happy with a punishment scale for death by careless that included a life time ban from driving at any seriousness of offence. Maybe it works as a deterrent, maybe it doesn't. The only downside is a few 100 people losing their licences each year. That's a price I'd be happy to pay to find out if it meant driving standards potentially improved.

 

[Tin Pot]

Change the law.