Would You Be Here Today If You Hadn't Been Wearing A Helmet?

[Angelfishsolo]

Would you consider that a cycle helmet could cause a death from a cycle accident in certain circumstances?

Because if there are circumstance in which they prevent a death there must be more circumstances in which they cause a death in order to explain the increased death rate from helmet wearing.

Has the issue of Helmet fitting been addressed in these studies? Slack straps and helmets pushed back on the head are lethal.

 

[2Loose]

How would you propose to address it?

By performing a proper study and coming up with a hemet test regime that reflects real life impacts and risks?

This is what seems to be missing, the current tests have little bearing on reality and miss out on various critical factors relating to protection.

Currently, helmet use seems to be driven by aesthetics rather than practicality and safety issues - which is exactly why I rely on defensive riding rather than a coloured hat.

 

[david k]

Its of the same vintage as the study most widely cited in favour of helmets, the much discredited Thompson, Rivara and Thompson paper of 1989.



Would you consider that a cycle helmet could cause a death from a cycle accident in certain circumstances?

Because if there are circumstance in which they prevent a death there must be more circumstances in which they cause a death in order to explain the increased death rate from helmet wearing.

as my post about hard hats suggests yes i would consider it, however i would like to see the balanced argument. how often does it save head injury compared to exasperate it

 

[david k]

How would you propose to address it?

if what you say is correct a proper study and better standards, if they can conduct so may studies surely this is not a large leap from were we are

 

[david k]

Has the issue of Helmet fitting been addressed in these studies? Slack straps and helmets pushed back on the head are lethal.

if true this could affect the stats. if injuies were due to poor fitting and not the helmet, the issue of correct use should be considered surely?

 

[Red Light]

Has the issue of Helmet fitting been addressed in these studies? Slack straps and helmets pushed back on the head are lethal.

What evidence do you have for slack straps and helmets pushed back being lethal as opposed to just ineffective?

 

[Red Light]

By performing a proper study and coming up with a hemet test regime that reflects real life impacts and risks?

Hmmm....this from the same article from the head of the leading UK helmet test lab.

"Cycle helmets are primarily designed for falls without any other vehicle involved. In many legal cases I have studied where a cyclist was in collision with a motorised vehicle, the impact energy potentials were of a level that outstripped those that we use to certify Grand Prix motor racing helmets."

So are you suggesting we all wear Formula 1 helmets to cycle and if not how do you propose to address this massive disparity between design and reality you are suggesting needs addressing?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

What evidence do you have for slack straps and helmets pushed back being lethal as opposed to just ineffective?

My appologies - I withdraw lethal and change it to dangerous. This is a outline of a BMJ report.

 

[Red Light]

as my post about hard hats suggests yes i would consider it, however i would like to see the balanced argument. how often does it save head injury compared to exasperate it

Well given that at a population level, helmet wearing increases the risk of head injuries, they must exasperate it more times than they save it. That's a simple mathematical fact.

 

[david k]

Hmmm....this from the same article from the head of the leading UK helmet test lab.

"Cycle helmets are primarily designed for falls without any other vehicle involved. In many legal cases I have studied where a cyclist was in collision with a motorised vehicle, the impact energy potentials were of a level that outstripped those that we use to certify Grand Prix motor racing helmets."

So are you suggesting we all wear Formula 1 helmets to cycle and if not how do you propose to address this massive disparity between design and reality you are suggesting needs addressing?

i think we need to aim for some reasonable ground if it can be found. Formula one is an extreem

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Well given that at a population level, helmet wearing increases the risk of head injuries, they must exasperate it more times than they save it. That's a simple mathematical fact.

I wonder. Maybe helmet riders on average ride further and more often than non helmet wearers. If that is the case then the number is injuries amongst that group would be higher.
Remember that red cars were shown the to be the most dangerous as they were involved in the most crashes. They were also the most common colour by far.

 

[Red Light]

My appologies - I withdraw lethal and change it to dangerous. This is a outline of a BMJ report.

Treat any paper by Thompson, Rivara and Thompson with the utmost scepticism. They are authors of some of the most discredited papers on the subject.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Treat any paper by Thompson, Rivara and Thompson with the utmost scepticism. They are authors of some of the most discredited papers on the subject.

By that token the BMJ itself is discredited then? And there was me thinking it had world wide respect.

 

[Red Light]

I wonder. Maybe helmet riders on average ride further and more often than non helmet wearers. If that is the case then the number is injuries amongst that group would be higher.
Remember that red cars were shown the to be the most dangerous as they were involved in the most crashes. They were also the most common colour by far.

No, because its some research head injury data is normally normalised to injuries to another part of the body that is not protected by the helmet, usually the legs, to take account of the factors you suggest and others such as riding style, type of accident etc.

 

[Dan B]

I wonder. Maybe helmet riders on average ride further and more often than non helmet wearers.

I believe the relevant studies are 'before' and 'after' studies of countries which introduced mandatory helmet laws, and found that although head injuries declined, cycle use declined even faster. So, no

But it's a good question to ask. Much of the "analysis" on this subject has quite big statistical or logical holes in it and does demand to be appraised sceptically