You don't pay road tax

[ACS]

Living in a rural area I often pass more people riding horses on the roads than other cyclist, does anyone know if horse riders suffer the same kind of abuse or is this 'pay road tax' a urban road user issue?

 

[Lizban]

Which cost is met through general taxation, into which pot I pay a goodly chunk every month.

But the fundamental premise is flawed: it's a tax (actually a duty), not a licence. There's nothing immoral about legally avoiding it any more than there is about minimising your exposure to any other kind of tax.

Nor is there a suggestion from cyclists that it is - however it is a stick that is used to beat us with and as yet the resposne is a rather 'technical' (and I would argue flawed)explanation about how the tax system works. Hardly a pithy response to an idiot in a car!

 

[blazed]

Why do you need a clever rebuttal what do you think its going to change? You think they are going to remember it or even care? Here you are trying to find out some rebuttal on the internet whilst they are just getting on with their life not caring about some cyclist. That makes you the loser.

 

[Crankarm]

Here's an easier one then.

"What are you then, the tax inspector?"

Folk don't like being called that, for some reason.

How about :

"The levy you refer to my {insert obsequious term of endearment} is actually known as Vehicle Excise Duty which is a tax on people who use polluting vehicles such as yourself. No, I don't pay it so whose the stupid one? Neither do I smoke which I see you are doing which attracts a lot of excise duty. To equate the payments of duty to HMRC as a permission to use the road network is fanciful. Anyway eveyone knows that general and local taxation is used to maintain and build roads and I pay enough of that as it is as I am a higher rate tax payer. Sorry your point was????"

 

[Lizban]

Why do you need a clever rebuttal what do you think its going to change? You think they are going to remember it or even care? Here you are trying to find out some rebuttal on the internet whilst they are just getting on with their life not caring about some cyclist. That makes you the loser.

Being called a loser brings back memories of the play ground - thanks for making me feel young again! - But be warned don’t push it any further because my dad is bigger than yours.

But to deal with your point - there is a thread above this about myths and rebuttals and I assume that it is there to help cyclists persuade others to ride as well as dealing with tricky situations.

The rebuttal about road tax is flawed (in my view) and us trying to 'preach' about cycling and dealing with others (mis)perceptions to improve numbers, it kinda helps if we have a better rebuttal.

Hope that clears it up

 

[Lizban]

What would you say to the driver of a car then?

Firstly I'd agreed with him we don't pay and point out the benefit of this to cyclists.

Secondly I would lower VAT on new bikes to 5% (the lowest allowable) and use the balance (10/12.5%) to form a fund that goes into uninsured drivers fund / general taxation thereby eliminating drivers concerns and providing valuable insurance cover for cyclists

 

[redjedi]

I don't know what could be better than "there's no such thing as road tax". I don't pay road tax, neither do motorists, what's the problem with that?

Why do you need a better argument than the truth?

How long do you normally have to explain the errors of their ways to passing motorists?

Why let it bother you? If they want to be idiots and shout abuse from their cars, then let them. Keep on cycling past them in their traffic jam and get on with your life.

 

[tandemman]

There is no quick and pithy answer, why should there be????
Of course we don't pay fuel duty because we don't use fuel.
We dont pay "tax" because we are a "tax" exempt class of road user like horses, pedestrians and hand cart/barrow users,
I don't think dreaming up and using a witty remark will be much appreciated by an agressive road user in a large and potentially fatal piece of machinery, why would you want to goad them???

 

[redjedi]

Firstly I'd agreed with him we don't pay and point out the benefit of this to cyclists.

Secondly I would lower VAT on new bikes to 5% (the lowest allowable) and use the balance (10/12.5%) to form a fund that goes into uninsured drivers fund / general taxation thereby eliminating drivers concerns and providing valuable insurance cover for cyclists

Pay through the cycle scheme and you don't pay any VAT.

If your worried about insurance, take out insurance. I'm about to do it (should have already ), it will cost me £104 for the first year, covering me against theft, accidents and 3rd party cover.

 

[Lizban]

I don't know what could be better than "there's no such thing as road tax". I don't pay road tax, neither do motorists, what's the problem with that?

Why do you need a better argument than the truth?

How long do you normally have to explain the errors of their ways to passing motorists?

Why let it bother you? If they want to be idiots and shout abuse from their cars, then let them. Keep on cycling past them in their traffic jam and get on with your life.

See earlier posts for my view on what people mean by 'road tax'

Also this goes further than on road incidents it is more regularly mentioned to me by non cyclists friends / colleagues so you actually get a chance to explain

 

[Crankarm]

Being called a loser brings back memories of the play ground - thanks for making me feel young again! - But be warned don’t push it any further because my dad is bigger than yours.

But to deal with your point - there is a thread above this about myths and rebuttals and I assume that it is there to help cyclists persuade others to ride as well as dealing with tricky situations.

The rebuttal about road tax is flawed (in my view) and us trying to 'preach' about cycling and dealing with others (mis)perceptions to improve numbers, it kinda helps if we have a better rebuttal.

Hope that clears it up

Anyway I can't say a driver has put this to me recently. In fact I can't remember the last time it was so long ago. Which goes to show the Government's fiscal strategy doesn't really figure in my commute or wider bike riding. For a motorist to state the bleedin' obvious would show that they probably have wider issues you should be more concerned with such as the electronic tag around their leg or the hospital wrist band they are wearing. Infact check out whether their vehicle is taxed or they are insured........

 

[Lizban]

Pay through the cycle scheme and you don't pay any VAT.

If your worried about insurance, take out insurance. I'm about to do it (should have already ), it will cost me £104 for the first year, covering me against theft, accidents and 3rd party cover.

Good point about ride to work and VAT

I am convinced that the majority don't have insurance so this would save you ££££ (other than the theft insurance)

 

[NormanD]

does anyone know if horse riders suffer the same kind of abuse

Having worked in horse racing for many years (when I was younger), I never once had any abuse from drivers, even when I held them up for long periods, then again leading sixty horses the drivers would have had jaw ache before they arrived at me

I look at it this way, I own a car / work / pay tax, I pay through the nose being taxed on this that and other that I buy, therefor I earn the right to use the roads no matter what type of transport I choose to use.

Saying that the last guy that complained, his Tax was out of date by two months and when I pointed this out, he drove off with the V sign

How the goverment choose to waste the tax's I pay is not my problem.

Norm

 

[fossyant]

Given the amount I use my car these days, say on 3 days of a week (not for commuting) - £175 / 365 x 3 = £1.44 a day when I use it, so any mororist who has a go can do one...

 

[Davidc]

A number of issues.

Bicycles have VAT charged on them.

Local roads are maintained from local funds (Council Tax, the govt. grant to the authority, business rates etc.) which are paid by everyone.

Trunk roads are paid for centrally, from taxes paid by everyone.

A 1 Tonne (1000kg) car damages roads faster than a 100kg bike (incl. rider). It's a 4th power law so the rate is 10x10x10x10 = 10000 times as fast. If VED was based on that, and an average car VED was £150 then a bike should pay 1.5p a year!

The massive cost of signalling roads is only necessary because of car use.

Cars cause ill health and death. Bikes don't. Tobacco duty is justified on these grounds, no reason why motor vehicle duty shouldn't be as well. (I wouldn't push that one as it doesn't stand too much scrutiny for tobacco!)

IM (not at all H) O motor vehicles should be taxed enough to pay the costs of maintaining and building roads, to fund the total health costs of our using them, to compensate for the damage from pollution including that to buildings and agriculture, and anything and everything else that could possibly be attributed to them, then perhaps they'd go away!