You don't pay road tax

[redjedi]

See earlier posts for my view on what people mean by 'road tax'

Also this goes further than on road incidents it is more regularly mentioned to me by non cyclists friends / colleagues so you actually get a chance to explain

If you've got time to discuss this with people, then explain to them the difference between VED, which is what they actually pay, and "road tax" which they haven't had to pay for many years (someone will know you the exact number of years).
Also mention that they don't have to pay "road tax" either. Give up their fuel/money guzzling car, and get a hydbrid/electric car or a money guzzling bike

 

[Lizban]

A number of issues.

Bicycles have VAT charged on them.

Local roads are maintained from local funds (Council Tax, the govt. grant to the authority, business rates etc.) which are paid by everyone.

Trunk roads are paid for centrally, from taxes paid by everyone.

A 1 Tonne (1000kg) car damages roads faster than a 100kg bike (incl. rider). It's a 4th power law so the rate is 10x10x10x10 = 10000 times as fast. If VED was based on that, and an average car VED was £150 then a bike should pay 1.5p a year!

The massive cost of signalling roads is only necessary because of car use.

Cars cause ill health and death. Bikes don't. Tobacco duty is justified on these grounds, no reason why motor vehicle duty shouldn't be as well. (I wouldn't push that one as it doesn't stand too much scrutiny for tobacco!)

IM (not at all H) O motor vehicles should be taxed enough to pay the costs of maintaining and building roads, to fund the total health costs of our using them, to compensate for the damage from pollution including that to buildings and agriculture, and anything and everything else that could possibly be attributed to them, then perhaps they'd go away!

Agree with the last paragraph - as long as the equation is balanced by the good that they do.

 

[Crankarm]

Good point about ride to work and VAT

I am convinced that the majority don't have insurance so this would save you ££££ (other than the theft insurance)

How long have you been cycling Lizban?

I would not let it get you down. Just cycle on and think of something else. Like a buterfly in the summer breeze....

 

[Davidc]

Pay through the cycle scheme and you don't pay any VAT.

If your worried about insurance, take out insurance. I'm about to do it (should have already ), it will cost me £104 for the first year, covering me against theft, accidents and 3rd party cover.

I can't. It's discrimination against the self employed!

 

[Lizban]

How long have you been cycling Lizban?

I would not let it get you down. Just cycle on and think of something else. Like a buterfly in the summer breeze....

Only 30 years! - Inaccuracy (from both parties) annoys me. Don't get me started about starbucks and their lack of an apostrophe!!!!

 

[Davidc]

Agree with the last paragraph - as long as the equation is balanced by the good that they do.

Precious little in the case of cars. The Danes are leading the way in showing that all that comes from getting rid of them is benefts.

Most freight transport by road would use less energy and have lower environmental impact if by rail most of the way.

I think that leaves ambulances and fire engines....

 

[skwerl]

Aye, but we pay tax on our "fuel" if it is classed as "non essential".

E.g. you pay tax on cake ...

.... Mmmm, cake!!!!!

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=6269602

no, you don't. No VAT on cake.

 

[very-near]

It's not my lorry and seen as you think that a truck and car with bull bars are the same you should know.

Put the argument another way.

HGVs cannot clearly be charged VED on the amount of damage they cause to the structure of the road because this would amount to far in excess of the £1850 you pay to use it on the road PA.

Estimates are that a single 44 tonne HGV passing over a stretch of road causes the same amount of structural damage as 40,000 cars.

Add to this this other issues about safety and pollution and it is quite clear that

HGVs cause more environmental damage

Lorries cause vastly more environmental damage and congestion than their share of Europe's road vehicles, according to a report by European environmental lobby group, Transport & Environment (TE). T&E says HGVs make up just 3% of total road vehicles and 7% of total vehicle kilometres, but the report by Dutch consultants CE Delft shows they are responsible for 20% of the congestion, twice the number of road deaths per kilometre than passenger cars, and that their carbon dioxide emissions will increase by 54% by 2030.

http://hgvireland.com/news09a/09hgv76.html

Now to be fair and put the boot on the other foot and go from one extreme to another, it could easily be argued that whilst cyclists do not damage the roads in any significant way, the roads still need to be constructed and maintained to a minimum standard irrespective of whether they get frost, sun, or flood damage which is an ongoing problem irrespective of what gets driven over them, and as a result there should be a direct correlation between the users benefit and the maintenance bills which allow their continued use.

 

[Davidc]

no, you don't. No VAT on cake.

But there is on biscuits (I think)

 

[skwerl]

But there is on biscuits (I think)

Correct. The great jaffa cake court case. Then recently the exact opposite where M&S were told to refund several hundred thousand pounds to customers for charging VAT on it's own version of the jaffa cake.

And the acid test, which McVities one with? Cake goes hard over time whereas biscuits go soft - brilliant.
I still find it odd that cake is classed as a necessity. Someone at HMRC must be a keen cyclist.

 

[scottyD]

Only chocolate coated biscuits. If the chocolate is pressed in, it doesn't count. That is why there have been cases in the house of lords about Jaffa Cakes. If it is a cake, they don't have to add VAT. If it is a chocolate coated biscuit, they do. It was finally decided, i think, based on cakes go hard as they go old, where as biscuits go soft. Jaffa Cakes go hard, so HMRC lost the case! Bored yet? I am!

But anyway, in terms of a response why not:
"No I don't do. but i am trying to save the planet while you are destroying it, so stop moaning"
(i'm not really a "green", but i imagine that would work!).

 

[Landslide]

I can't. It's discrimination against the self employed!

If you're using it for work, it may be tax-deductible.
I don't know all the ins and outs, but I'm currently working with an IT contractor who buys a new Brompton every year, then flogs it on. By writing it off against tax, and helped by Bromptons' tendency to hold their value, it's barely costing him anything, and some years, he's pretty much turned a profit!

 

[Arch]

If you've got time to discuss this with people, then explain to them the difference between VED, which is what they actually pay, and "road tax" which they haven't had to pay for many years (someone will know you the exact number of years).

I belive a certain Mr Churchill abolished the term in 1935 or 6, reasoning that it would lead drivers to think they 'owned' the road.... Clever man, Churchill.

The main reason they come up with the whole 'you don't pay road tax' thing, I think is that they think that paying it gives them some greater right to be on the road, because they are paying for it's upkeep. So, explain that 'road tax' is not hypothicated (ringfenced) for the roads, but just goes into the whole taxation pot. Roads are paid for either from that pot, which also includes all the VAT we all pay, the fuel, booze and fag duty, income tax etc, or from council tax, which again, we all pay. If you have time to explain, try that one. Remember to use the word 'hypothicated' to confuse the dim ones.

Also, of course, cars cause much more damage to the road surface by virture of their greater weight, so it's only fair that they pay into the pot for repairs.

 

[J4CKO]

Was letting my mind wander, it got silly, my suggestions,

Just say you know about the tax thing, and you are truly sorry and that you will donate £210 or more every year to a charity for pompous, smug and unimaginitive drivers to fund the development of a new put down for cyclists as the old one is worn out.

Alternatively you can say, guess what, ride a bike and you too can avoid paying "Road" tax.

Or say, yes I save £210 plus every year and in not driving a (Insert appropriate make/model here, example BMW X5) plus everyone doesnt assume I am a c*nt !

Pretend to be deaf or Foreign, they love that

Say that you have been stopped by the doctor from driving due to some dreadful medical condition (make one up, Screaming Dutch Cock Rot, Twartyfagitis etc) and they will probably back down.

Get your cock out, that usually shuts them up, especially if you are a woman.

Ask if they are either a member of her Majestys Constabulary or Her Majestys inspector of taxes, when they answer no say "well f*ck off then".

Go red and strain in the face like you are having a poo.

Collapse theatrically then stop moving.

When they point out the tax thing, agree wholeheartedley and then put your bike in their boot and climb in the passenger seat, thank them for saving you from commiting a tax fraud and ask to be taken to your destination, freak them out further by talking like a Sat Nav unit.

Bark or make Chimp noises at them.

Hop onto the pavement and say "Happy now you road Captain"

Start singing the Banana Boat Song

Root through your rucksack muttering "Gun, Gun, hmm now where did I put it"

Grab their tax disk, stick it to your bike and pedal off.

Tell them you are actually car driver working deep cover to gather information on cyclists who commit this vile fraud.

If there are other cars or passers by, lean to the window of the car are pretend you are being throttle or shaken by the person inside, fall to the floor.

Start talking to them normally but stroke your bike and say soothing things to it.

Say twenty five quid for a blow job or 40 for full sex very loudly if anyone is about.

Get your mobile out and ignore them, talk down it saying that some prick is harrassing you, yes the road tax thing again, third one today.

Point in the back of the car say "JESUS CHRIST, WHATS THAT" and pedal off like your life depended on it.

Lick their car

Hand them an internet device, with the url of this thread or if you dont have one scratch it into their paint with a protractor.

 

[Jake]

ROFL there were some great ones in there. i like nicking their tax disk