You don't pay road tax

[Arch]

Hand them an internet device, with the url of this thread or if you dont have one scratch it into their paint with a protractor.

A very excellent post, but...

I think you mean compasses. A protractor is just a plastic semi circle, and will probably make little impact on car paint....

 

[very-near]

Do you still go Green laning?

Not for a while, the car has been SORN'd since feb.

Why ?

 

[Ranger]

A number of issues.

Cars cause ill health and death. Bikes don't. Tobacco duty is justified on these grounds, no reason why motor vehicle duty shouldn't be as well. (I wouldn't push that one as it doesn't stand too much scrutiny for tobacco!)

IM (not at all H) O motor vehicles should be taxed enough to pay the costs of maintaining and building roads, to fund the total health costs of our using them, to compensate for the damage from pollution including that to buildings and agriculture, and anything and everything else that could possibly be attributed to them, then perhaps they'd go away!

If I can dig far enough back in my memory, what Davidc is talking about here is referred to as externalities by economists.

These are costs to society that are not met by the consumer in the price they pay for a good and hence it becomes in the interest of society to place a charge (or tax) on the product to reflect its real cost to society(e.g. health problems caused by pollution, loss/damage of the amenity near roads)

I think this is the rationale for taxes on such things as cigarettes, alcohol and fuel, i.e. this is how much it actually costs the State to allow this to happen so pay your bit.

Then again I may be talking rubbish

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

J4CKO - best post I’ve seen in a while.
Looking forward to trying some of them –

Seem to remember a story (probably apocryphal) of a traffic policeman who, when confronted by an angry motorist he had just pulled over for speeding, claiming that the weren’t, would get a Sooty glove puppet out of his pocket and have a pretend conversation with it, and then say something like “but Sooty says you were speeding…”

Re the is there isn’t there VAT on Cake? – doesn’t it depend on where you bought and ate it?

 

[NormanD]

Damn you J4cko

thats another keyboard covered in coffee

brilliant reply

Norm

 

[Garz]

It's sort of a no-brainer for the people who do pay road tax and ride a bike. The chanter doesn't obviously consider this?

When they point out the tax thing, agree wholeheartedley and then put your bike in their boot and climb in the passenger seat, thank them for saving you from commiting a tax fraud and ask to be taken to your destination, freak them out further by talking like a Sat Nav unit.

Liked this one!

J4cko, what about pinning/mounting a 'I dont pay road tax on board' sign! Should wind them up.

 

[sheddy]

Liz, one simple response is - "It's not Road Tax, it's Car Tax, what part don't you understand ?"

 

[wafflycat]

I have been known to put on my best middle-aged matron of the parish voice and look to respond "Of course I don't pay road tax you silly little boy, because there is no such thing!" and then pootle off on my way. That flummoxes them completely.

 

[HJ]

Having read the argument and rebuttals against the moronic chant of 'you don't pay road tax' I am confused.

The rebuttal appears to rely on the fact that road building is paid for by general taxation and is based on emissions therefore cyclist have zero emissions therefore pay zero.

However I can't think of a way of driving on the road (legally) without paying tax to access them even if you have a very low emission car.

Evidently you are not a tax accountant, cars that are electric, or with very low CO2 emissions of 110 grams or less per kilometre (g/km) driven, qualify for a 100 per cent capital allowance until 31 March 2013. Also cars in VED Band A (CO2 Emission up to 100 g/km) pay £0 VED. Of course there are other taxes which apply to these vehicles, such as 15% VAT when you buy them. Strangely enough this is the same rate of VAT as you pay on a new bike, but you don't get a £2000 subsidy when you scrap a ten year old bike...

So have the much derided motorists actually got a point? If so can we come up with a better rebuttal?

No.

Once upon a time, long, long, ago there was a thing called the road fund, well from 1910 up until 1936 when it was abolished by Winston Churchill (who was Chancellor of the Exchequer at the time). For some strange reason many driver think that they still pay for the road fund, they don't roads are paid for out of general taxation. We all pay tax and the same proportion of that tax is used to pay for the roads. QED we all pay for the roads.

Now if you do know of a way in which riding a bike make you exempt from tax, my account would very much like to know about it....

Don't forget fuel duty - and if it was purely for emissions can someone explain ‘red’ diesel to me!?!?!?!?

Red diesel is a tax exemption for certain industries, such as agriculture, you can not legally drive a vehicle using red diesel on the roads.

 

[HJ]

Living in a rural area I often pass more people riding horses on the roads than other cyclist, does anyone know if horse riders suffer the same kind of abuse or is this 'pay road tax' a urban road user issue?

Even here in the middle of the toon, we have people who ride horses on the roads, and no one ever shouts "get off the road, you don't pay tax!" at them...

It might have something to do with them wearing jackets with Police written on them...

 

[fossyant]

I think...... "I don't emit enough CO2 you F***er (Flub...er) to pay it, you jelly face" might be enough...eh ?

Erm.... I am no good with coming up with a good one liner that is polite but to the point. I did do "pointless" to a guy that overtook me, pulled in and mounted the kerb.....outside a paper shop.... then I got a load of verbal back... ah well......

 

[Yellow Fang]

I can't remember anyone ever saying this to me, but if they did I would tell them that vehicle excise duty is no more earmarked for road maintenance than cigarette duty is earmarked for the NHS. I expect they would just put on a silly voice and go nyeah, nyeah, nyer, nyeah, nyah

 

[PBancroft]

I don't think I've ever had anyone on the road accuse me of not paying road tax. In my experience drivers don't hang around very long. At most all I hear is "Wankeeeeerrr...." as they drive past in their company liveried vehicles.

I have had the pleasure of people at work or friends being a bit put out that cyclists don't pay tax. When it comes down to it, most people are like Lizban seems to be suggesting - they don't actually care why they are taxed, and what the money is used for - they just care that drivers are taxed, and cyclists are not.

For many people driving is not seen as an option - its something "everyone" has to do, and to those people it seems unfair that they pay exorbitant rates to be on the road whilst others seem to be getting a free ride. And there's not a lot you can actually say to people to dissuade them of this opinion, especially when they get their arguments all in a muddle.

Lizban's argument about red diesel reminds me of the time when I was berated for not having to pay the M6 Toll as a cyclist, despite the fact that, as a cyclist, I couldn't use it. When I pointed this out they brought up red diesel, and how they saw a tractor on it which wasn't paying fuel duty and therefore cyclists should subsidise the road... I mean WTF?

At the end of the day, most driver arguments can be responded to thus:-

You don't pay road tax. I pay council tax, therefore I pay for the road.
But you don't pay car tax. Because I'm not driving a car.
But you don't pay fuel tax. Because I'm not using fuel.
You don't have insurance. Yes, I do.
Gerroff the road. No.

When all else fails, do as Jacko suggests and play deaf.

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

The “You don’t pay road tax” argument is about as flawed as if I pushed my way to the front of the supermarket queue with my trolley full of Stella and B&H claiming the moral high ground on the grounds that I was paying more tax than the rest of the queue…

Suppose it depends how you see the world –

“Drivers” having to pay a tax to legally use the roads and when they fill up with fuel v “cyclists” who don’t have to, is rather a sad, and I think selfish way to look at it.
It’s as silly as moaning that “smokers” or “drinkers” have to pay more tax than “non-smokers” or “non-drinkers” – (and then moaning that the duty from fags and booze should subsidise ashtrays and pubs). Looking at the issue from this initial driver v cyclist standpoint is starting from the wrong angle and, therefore, I think the debate then becomes pointless and flawed.

The alternative view is that we are all citizens (or to be more accurate, subjects) of the UK and are all equally responsible for paying taxes and duty. If anyone chooses to drive a car, they pay the tax, and if anyone chooses to cycle they don’t. Just as if you chose to smoke, or drink, buy a house etc. you pay the duty/tax. These rules are fairly applied to everyone. Anyone can use a bike to get from a to b and doing so does not exempt you from any tax or duty if you chose to drive a car to make the same journey.

The “You don’t pay road tax” argument is about as flawed as if I pushed my way to the front of the supermarket queue with my trolley full of Stella and B&H claiming the moral high ground on the grounds that I was paying more tax than the rest of the queue…

 

[Tynan]

I use to hitch a lot and truck drivers usually mentioned that they paid over a grand for 'road tax' and therefore should have more right to the road than cars