Yukon vs Etape vs September

[Dave Higgin]

I would like to upgrade (from Hewitt Chiltern) and (possibly) rationalise down to one bike. Occasional long distance, some short tours, commuting and "day rides" around Lake District. I have a hankering for Ti as it seems to meet the needs but can't decide between Van Nic Yukon, Sabbath September or the Enigma Etape. Has anyone out there had a similar quandry or experience of these bikes?
Thanks

 

[wyno70]

Just got myself a Van Nicholas Euros and very comfortable it is too. Looks the business and I love it to bits. As such, I highly recommend Van nic!

 

[Dormouse]

I have a Yukon and it is my favourite bike and I would recommend it. It should do all the jobs that you listed. The only trouble I have had was with shimmies on long downhills (e.g. Bealach na Ba) but now I know that you can stop this by pressing a leg against the top tube.

 

[yello]

I'm interested in the opinions here too as my next bike (whenever that might be!) would be Ti - and the 3 mentioned here are leading candidates. I only have bias at this stage, having done nothing more than look at pictures and read some reviews etc but I find myself favouring the Sunday Sabbath.

 

[toontra]

A very happy VN Yukon owner here. So far its done 8000k in just over a year - everything from a 6-day solo LEJoG with rackbag and mudguards to very fast sportives (av. speed 23mph over 70 miles). In other words, this will do everything apart from very heavy loaded touring (I have a steel-frame MTB for that).

Personally I prefer the look of the VN over the Sabbath, and the lack of paint means I don't have to be so careful about getting chips/scratches. It's virtually indestructible and gets treated like a machine, not a pet!

 

[Blonde]

A happy September rider here. There's not much in it. I went along to the Sunday/Sabbath workshop and test road a September for four hours - which sold it to me! Welds ar neat and I prefer the graphics on the Sunday to the VN (you can choose from black, red, blue or green). You can also choose the finish (matt/"gun-metal effect", medium/"brushed-effect" or high shine) They buffed mine up to a high shine, 'cos I like it that way!

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

.....can't decide between Van Nic Yukon, Sabbath September or the Enigma Etape. Has anyone out there had a similar quandry or experience of these bikes?...

All three bikes are well designed and well built frames; I wrote a review of my own Yukon (Also seen in my Pyrenees tour) that may be of interest as the comments will be valid to all three:


Van Nicholas 'Yukon' review written for Roadcyclinkuk.com

With the increasing popularity of Audax, Etape riding and fast day rides, along with 'credit card' tours where only light luggage is carried, it follows that the demand for bikes that are specifically aimed at fast paced, high mileage rides yet offering an element of comfort has also grown.

Most manufacturers will have a model that tries to cater for this demand in slightly different ways. From the larger manufacturers we have, for example, the fair weather Specialized Roubaix range and Trek currently have their Pilot (now Madone Performace fit) range to name just two. The smaller specialist European titanium manufacturers like Enigma, Sunday (now Sabbath) and Van Nicholas, tested here, make theirs for the European market, with slightly larger clearances to take narrow guards as well as a pannier rack.

Fundamentally it is the frame geometry that make these bikes what they are; the seat tube angles are similar to what you would find on a full-on race bike, whereas the head tube will have a slightly shallower angle to give a bit more comfort. The 56cm Yukon here has a 73 degree seat angle with 72 at the head; a race bike would normally be 73/73.

As Van Nicholas offer a custom service where you can choose each and every component to suit both your budget and requirement, I will concentrate more on the bike's riding characteristics than each component.

The Yukon frame is designed in Holland by the company's founder, Jan-Willem Sintnicolaas and built using 3AL/2.5V grade Titanium. The workmanship is first class; so much so that it can take some by surprise when they discover they are actually built in China, which is why of course the price is so competitive. Alloy bars and stem plus carbon forks are also Van Nicholas branded, the latter with a gradual rake. With SKS narrow guards fitted allowing for 700 x 25 tyres (with just enough room for a light 28c tyre) there is slight toe overlap which again shows that this is no long wheelbase, heavy-duty touring bike, the emphasis being more on performance.

Cruising along, it feels comfortable and stable. Unloaded and riding on a flat level road, it feels quick; never quite as quick as a full on race bike but relatively fast nonetheless. If I had to highlight the difference of riding this style of geometry makes over a race bike, then personally I would say I only notice a slight drop off in performance when climbing or sprinting out of the saddle. The rest of the time it is much closer, which is exactly what they claim it is designed to be.

Titanium lends itself well to bikes like these, which by their very nature seldom lead a precious life that many race bikes enjoy. In many ways an evolution of steel, relatively light, durable, robust and very comfortable, won't even rust, titanium is as near a bike for life as it is possible to get; this one hasn't even got any paint to chip! In conclusion, if you want a well made, fast, mile eating, weather-resistant, durable bike, then the Van Nicholas Yukon is worth considering.

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

 

[groucho]

September owner here since last October! Probably got one of the first Sabbaths. A very relaxed ride and I can feel the (relative) power going straight to the back wheel. Greg was very helpful and patient when I visited and tried a few combinations out in Macclesfield.
The bike will last longer than me!

for further discussion and some pictures http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8431.30

 

[Royalrider]

Hi,
I had exactly your quandry almost a year ago. I knew I wanted Titanium but which one?
The three you have mentioned were my top three also. I did loads of research, and ended up buying........ A Van Nic Amazon! Why? I wanted the versatility to get off the roads and onto the trails whilst still retaining the ability to keep up with my riding partner on his Cinelli Man Machine when putting the foot down, so to speak, on the tarmac.
The Amazon. I kitted out with Shimano 105 groupset, very efficient canti lever brakes, and put 28 Conti Gator skins on as a compromise. The bike is light, very comfortable and responsive. I love it!. It handles like a dream. In fact at 60cm, my size, the frame is slightly lighter than a Yukon.
I prefer the look of the Amazon to the others also but thats obviously just a personal thing.
The real clincher for me though was the ability to set it up as a fast, mile eating audax style bike or conversely put heavy duty tyres on if you are having a spell on rougher trails which you can't do with any of the ones on your shortlist, unless you remove the mudguards. It will handle all the touring duties you can throw at it also.
Whichever one you decide on best wishes but ensure you have a proper set up and get measured and fitted which I am sure you will.

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

Hi,
I had exactly your quandry almost a year ago. I knew I wanted Titanium but which one?
The three you have mentioned were my top three also. I did loads of research, and ended up buying........ A Van Nic Amazon! Why? I wanted the versatility to get off the roads and onto the trails whilst still retaining the ability to keep up with my riding partner on his Cinelli Man Machine when putting the foot down, so to speak, on the tarmac.
The Amazon. I kitted out with Shimano 105 groupset, very efficient canti lever brakes, and put 28 Conti Gator skins on as a compromise. The bike is light, very comfortable and responsive. I love it!. It handles like a dream. In fact at 60cm, my size, the frame is slightly lighter than a Yukon.
I prefer the look of the Amazon to the others also but thats obviously just a personal thing.
The real clincher for me though was the ability to set it up as a fast, mile eating audax style bike or conversely put heavy duty tyres on if you are having a spell on rougher trails which you can't do with any of the ones on your shortlist, unless you remove the mudguards. It will handle all the touring duties you can throw at it also.
Whichever one you decide on best wishes but ensure you have a proper set up and get measured and fitted which I am sure you will.

The Amazon is very popular choice for those riders who only have one bike, that as such needs to perform a multitude of roles that potentially could involve cycling on “rougher trails”. The Yukon has more focus as a road specific mile eating fast audax bike, it can not take the larger tyres that can be fitted to the Amazon neither does it have such larger clearances that will allow the mud to clear, a Yukon would clog up with dirt far quicker.

For sure the Yukon is far more popular (as in I have sold far more), as many riders have more than one bike, so instead of having a bike that is suitable for a variety of roles they would often have bikes that have more focus for each style of riding they intend to use them for.

In the OP David did mention his intention was to possibly “rationalise down to one bike”, if he wants to use that bike potentially for rougher tracks then the Amazon is worth considering.

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

 

[Royalrider]

Hi Paul,
I agree with all that you say and I would certainly bow to your far superior knowledge and experience than mine. I do not know if you recall but you were very helpful to me when I was going through the same choices as Dave the OP.
The only point I was trying to make was that, in my opinion and from my research I was led to believe, an Amazon can be set up to do exactly what a Yukon can do, with very little loss, if any, in performance if you go for eg, Mavic open pro rims or similar and other audax type specs but not the other way around. A Yukon cannot do what an Amazon can if specced for the rough stuff. It does give that versatility if you are rationalising to just one cycle and a set of spare wheels gives you the best of both worlds.

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

Hi Paul,
I agree with all that you say and I would certainly bow to your far superior knowledge and experience than mine. I do not know if you recall but you were very helpful to me when I was going through the same choices as Dave the OP.
The only point I was trying to make was that, in my opinion and from my research I was led to believe, an Amazon can be set up to do exactly what a Yukon can do, with very little loss, if any, in performance if you go for eg, Mavic open pro rims or similar and other audax type specs but not the other way around. A Yukon cannot do what an Amazon can if specced for the rough stuff. It does give that versatility if you are rationalising to just one cycle and a set of spare wheels gives you the best of both worlds.

Yes indeed “an Amazon can be set up to do exactly what a Yukon can do” although I would amend “with very little loss, if any” to “with little loss, but that is not to say both will ride exactly the same”.

For sure the performance is close enough for many, but by the same token many look and give attention to every detail when choosing a bike, that they are often setting up for a very specific use, so it is understandable that they if they can buy a bike set up to fulfill that role specifically, then that is what they will chose over a bike that isn't; even if it is close.

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

 

[Van Nick]

Does anyone have any experience of Ciclosuno (see link below) ?

http://www.ciclosuno.com/node/299

They are advertising Enigma Etape frames (2009 models) for £998.

The Etape frame is advertised on Enigma's own website at £1,130, so how can they sell them so much cheaper than Enigma ?

 

[Dave Higgin]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I'm not sure that I'm any the wiser - like a lot of things, it's a matter of personal preference. Seems like they are 3 very good bikes and should fit the bill. I will have to get out there and see them "in the flesh" so to speak and get some test rides.

 

[P.H]

No recommendations from me, those three were on my shortlist then I bought a Planet X Sportive, but my criteria was a bit different to yours, for touring I'll still use my Hewitt. Some observations picked up in my search, some of which you'll have already gathered:
Fatbirds in Hunstanton seem to be offering the best deals, frame with fork & headset; September £809 or Yukon £856. They're probable the only place to test them side by side. I found them very helpful on the phone and when I met them at Mildenhall Rally last year. They were happy to have bikes set up for me to ride by appointment, though I didn't do so.
The brushed finish has some long term advantages, you can buff any scratches out with fine wire wool. If you mark a bead blasted frame there's not a lot you can do other than have it refinished.
The September seems to have better clearances then the Yukon, a friends Yukon takes 25mm tyres and I've seen a September with 28mm. I say seems because it could be the differences in manufacturers sizes, or the owners idea of what's acceptable. If I’d been looking for an only bike it would have been important enough to me to check it out.
The Enigma is a different beast, at a different price point, to compare like with like it'd be a custom frame from Sabbath or VN. The Etape uses double butted tubing unlike the plain gauge of the other two, I've no idea how much difference that makes, it's downplayed by the others, though they still use DB on their higher range bikes. The Etape also uses standard reach brakes, which will restrict tyre choice with mudguards. Having said that, they really will build what you want, a friend has an Omega with plenty of clearance for 30mm tyres plus a few other different touches and there are photos on YACF of one with disk brakes. If you got on well with Paul Hewitt, he can get Enigmas made to specification and I think he stocks VN.
Enjoy your looking, you'll get a great bike whichever you choose. I'd be weary of leaving it too long, the prices went up 20% while I dithered and several people have said there's another price hike due in the near future.