Zwift Chat

[CXRAndy]

If I can power up my stages crank arm PM I might try and do some comparisons.

I do know that last winter just after Christmas my ftp- genuine up the Alpe was 285W-it took me bang on the hour to climb.

Ramp test had me around 305-310W

Currently 25-35W shy of that

 

[Whorty]

sadly seems it’s quite common. The tacx NEO fb page is not a happy place. NEO 1 is fine though

I'm a member of that page - tbf I take a lot of it with a pinch of salt. Some peeps will find any excuse why they're not fast enough In our races I seem to be about where I should be so I'm happy my unit is about right 👍

 

[CXRAndy]

Lars, I can no longer do multiple races a week, it just whacks me out. I find endurance work is fine and slowly building up power, but HIT repeatedly, not anymore

 

[bridgy]

I've had a look at that facebook page @bobinski and so far I've seen possible reasons for power discrepancies of:

- crank based power meter being used to compare against is innacurate/likely to be different anyway/wrongly calibrated

- single side crank based PM is over-reading watts due to rider being biased towards one leg over the other

- Drivetrain losses from crank based PM to Neo

- differences are greater in some circumstances than others so narrow test may not give the full picture (I saw this when comparing my old Bkool to Neo - I could show you some specific segments where there's very little difference between Bkool & Neo when we know overall there is)

Also it didn't take long to find people compaining of 20-30w under reporting of watts from the Neo 1 from well before the Neo2 came out.

The whole thing's a minefield and a massive can of worms!

 

[<Tommy>]

I'm a member of that page - tbf I take a lot of it with a pinch of salt. Some peeps will find any excuse why they're not fast enough In our races I seem to be about where I should be so I'm happy my unit is about right 👍

It’s two different things really to be fair. I’m in the same camp as you in that it doesn’t bother me. But that doesn’t mean it’s not been proven to be a genuine issue with some peoples units. If someone is weighing up buying one unit over another there’s no point in papering over it I don’t think.

@bridgy. It seems like everyone here is happy with their neo’s so it probably doesn’t need over analysing. But there is a guy on that page who has posted data from different a few different neo’s using exactly the same bike and power meter. And he shows lots of variation between units. So it is quite a controlled experiment to be fair.

it would bother me if my unit was out by a big margin.

 

[bobinski]

I've had a look at that facebook page @bobinski and so far I've seen possible reasons for power discrepancies of:

- crank based power meter being used to compare against is innacurate/likely to be different anyway/wrongly calibrated

- single side crank based PM is over-reading watts due to rider being biased towards one leg over the other

- Drivetrain losses from crank based PM to Neo

- differences are greater in some circumstances than others so narrow test may not give the full picture (I saw this when comparing my old Bkool to Neo - I could show you some specific segments where there's very little difference between Bkool & Neo when we know overall there is)

Also it didn't take long to find people compaining of 20-30w under reporting of watts from the Neo 1 from well before the Neo2 came out.

The whole thing's a minefield and a massive can of worms!

don’t go there again! You’ll never get the time back

 

[bridgy]

It’s two different things really to be fair. I’m in the same camp as you in that it doesn’t bother me. But that doesn’t mean it’s not been proven to be a genuine issue with some peoples units. If someone is weighing up buying one unit over another there’s no point in papering over it I don’t think.

@bridgy. It seems like everyone here is happy with their neo’s so it probably doesn’t need over analysing. But there is a guy on that page who has posted data from different a few different neo’s using exactly the same bike and power meter. And he shows lots of variation between units. So it is quite a controlled experiment to be fair.

Oh yeah I saw that, and I'm sure there are problems with some units. Not the same as it being a universal problem with that trainer under reporting by 20-30w though. And I wonder how many other trainers would show variable results if tested in this way?

 

[bobinski]

Like Tommy says Drew Epstein has done a tonne of testing and moved from being a sceptic to a believer about accuracy issues with a % of NEO2’s. 10-30w on average. The thing is his observations sit amidst and are used to justify the “I am stronger than this, I have lost x watts” style posts.

 

[<Tommy>]

Oh yeah I saw that, and I'm sure there are problems with some units. Not the same as it being a universal problem with that trainer under reporting by 20-30w though. And I wonder how many other trainers would show variable results if tested in this way?

I look at it this way. My power meters were both around 1k. The neo doesn’t sell for much more than that and for that they have priced in a motor and everything else in the unit. So my logic is it’s optimistic that they can produce a pm as accurate as my stand alone pm’s for that price point. I just think the engineering quality isn’t going to be so high because theyre are very precise measuring tools and cost a lot to manufacture to a high standard.

I don’t think it’s universal either. Like I say my units seems pretty good. I also think you’re right. There’s plenty of chatter about other brands units giving weird readings too. I think if someone really does want the best possible readings, which is fair enough, they need to get an independent power meter to use with their turbo. And even then the list of top notch power meters which seem beyond reproach is quite a short list.

from my perspective I think we’re all doing just fine with what we have.

 

[<Tommy>]

Like Tommy says Drew Epstein has done a tonne of testing and moved from being a sceptic to a believer about accuracy issues with a % of NEO2’s. 10-30w on average. The thing is his observations sit amidst and are used to justify the “I am stronger than this, I have lost x watts” style posts.

yeah and it’s a shame in a way. I see people jumping all over it with no evidence to back it up. You really need to be able to have a direct comparison or it’s pointless piping up. The bottom line is even if your unit is under reading, so long as it’s consistent you can measure your progress or whatever.

We’re so lucky in this group of ours that we’re all racing against each other and not completely watt obsessed racing against a power number.

 

[JuhaL]

Virtual world is always artificial. For example that gravel update i am not 100% certain how realistic it is. Is gravel really that slow irl what it is on Zwift. I know it’s different like it’s more slippery with road tyres and it might cause some punctures but is it really that slow.

 

[Whorty]

Using the hack later to have another pop at the London TT stage. Legs tired from last night's race so not expecting to improve my time, but should give me a good workout. If anyone fancies joining me for a spin, feel free 👍 Will be on at about 5:30

 

[Breedon]

Using the hack later to have another pop at the London TT stage. Legs tired from last night's race so not expecting to improve my time, but should give me a good workout. If anyone fancies joining me for a spin, feel free 👍 Will be on at about 5:30

Good luck, was hoping to get on but I can't be arsed , so will do it tomorrow afternoon

 

[Freelanderuk]

Using the hack later to have another pop at the London TT stage. Legs tired from last night's race so not expecting to improve my time, but should give me a good workout. If anyone fancies joining me for a spin, feel free 👍 Will be on at about 5:30

rest and beers day for me enjoy the ride

 

[berty bassett]

@bridgy - not about next week mate so had to do it tonight to put a time in