Zwift Chat

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bridgy

Legendary Member
Location
Cheddar
There is more in life than sitting inside on a Turbo. Yes I've used Zwift and had a sub for a few years after breaking my spine, but the real world and the interaction with the environment rules, even close calls with loose gravel, cars, ducks, moving trees. That increase is nuts though. But hey ho.

I find turbos, including interactive stuff, mind numbing. Life is too short not to experience the outside.

That's fair enough from your perspective. Others however don't find it mind numbing - they find it useful, enjoyable and sociable.

Using an indoor trainer with Zwift or similar can be the only way some people can fit regular cycling in to increase or maintain their fitness around other life commitments like childcare, work etc. and foul weather. Particularly during the winter months when it gets dark early.

Riding indoors on Zwift and enjoying outdoor riding aren't mutually exclusive the way you imply - in fact, keeping fit on Zwift can actually be the very thing that enables people to then be able to do outdoor rides when the opportunity allows. Pretty much everyone I've met via Zwift does and enjoys outdoor rides and adventures on their bikes as well - myself included. I've met many of them for big outdoor rides or events.

So it may not be for you, and you may have plenty of opportunities to keep fit with just outdoor riding and that's fair enough. But for others it's genuinely fun in itself (particularly racing), and a way to keep fit so they can enjoy outdoor riding as well.

I agree life is too short to not experience the outside (if possible) - for many, Zwift allows them to do exactly this and with the added bonus that they do actually enjoy in in it's own way as well.

Not chuffed about the price rise though! Not the only product to increase in price in recent times by a long way!
 

Peter Salt

Bittersweet
Location
Yorkshire, UK
https://forums.zwift.com/t/zwift-child-account/630075

Seems to suggest that existing kids' accounts, besides being allowed to run on, are also re-renewable still...
Interesting. My son's account was created in November 2021 and I don't ever recall having to renew stuff on there. He actually used it a week or so ago so still definitely works. We'll see what happens moving forward.

I choose not to sponsor an American coorporation who lays off staff and raises prices, while at the same time sponsoring high profile races and doing TV-commercials. A 50%+ price hike in less than 2 years is just too much in my book, and therefore I cancelled my renewal.
I also didn't renew my Strava sub earlier this year, as they also raised their price too much, and I see no real development on that platform either. There is plenty of free alternatives out there, if you really want to dissect your ride data - which I don't.
That's fair, I just don't feel the same way.

I don't think I would class Zwift as a corporation, let alone an evil one, just based on their headcount and revenue. You have mentioned there was another price rise in the EU but I don't believe we had that in the UK - so the situation is slightly different. On top of that, they introduced the annual model which is great for people like me - who have Zwift active 12 months a year. They also introduced the referral programme, and I used it a few times with friends/family/colleagues. So from my perspective, from a purely arithmetic standpoint, the calculation is this:

- When I signed up in November 2021, the subscription was £12.99/month.
- The new annual price is £179.99 so £15.00/month.
- Since they got the referrals going (February 2023), I was able to get 4 people on board. Assuming I get no more until February 2025 that's a rate of 2 people per year. I get an extra month free for each, so that effectively spreads the £180 cost over 14 months and not 12.
- Real life cost of my current subscription is therefore £12.86/month.

Even if you ignore the referrals:

- The £15 a month is just £2 or ~15% increase compared to November 2021.
- Inflation rate in the UK for Nov '21 - March '24 is 19.9% so this is a below-inflation increase.

And this is all calculated only since my join date of November '21. If what I said earlier about UK pricing - that it hasn't changed since 2017 - is accurate, then you can see how long-term users wouldn't actually be fussed at all. The total inflation for the last 7 years is closer to 30%.

Hope that all makes sense.
 
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Brusgaard

Über Guru
Location
Skive, Denmark
I don't think I would class Zwift as a corporation, let alone an evil one, just based on their headcount and revenue. You have mentioned there was another price rise in the EU but I don't believe we had that in the UK - so the situation is slightly different. On top of that, they introduced the annual model which is great for people like me - who have Zwift active 12 months a year. They also introduced the referral programme, and I used it a few times with friends/family/colleagues. So from my perspective, from a purely arithmetic standpoint, the calculation is this:

- When I signed up in November 2021, the subscription was £12.99/month.
- The new annual price is £179.99 so £15.00/month.
- Since they got the referrals going (February 2023), I was able to get 4 people on board. Assuming I get no more until February 2025 that's a rate of 2 people per year. I get an extra month free for each, so that effectively spreads the £180 cost over 14 months and not 12.
- Real life cost of my current subscription is therefore £12.86/month.

Even if you ignore the referrals:

- The £15 a month is just £2 or ~15% increase compared to November 2021.
- Inflation rate in the UK for Nov '21 - March '24 is 19.9% so this is a below-inflation increase.

And this is all calculated only since my join date of November '21. If what I said earlier about UK pricing - that it hasn't changed since 2017 - is accurate, then you can see how long-term users wouldn't actually be fussed at all. The total inflation for the last 7 years is closer to 30%.

Hope that all makes sense.

I joined in the autumn 2017, and the price was $9.99 a month (66 DKK), then increased to $14.99 (96 DKK) in December 2017, then in August 2022 to 14.99 (112 DKK (and €149.99/year)) and now €19.99 (150DKK (and €199.99/year)). So that is about a 127% increase (in Danish Kroner) in less than 7 years. In the same time frame my BKOOL subscription has increased 0% (38 DKK / €4.99) - just for reference.

I don't get paid or sponsored to refer others to any platform. So in reality, I have to pay more to make it cheaper for others/referrers. Yes, it all makes more sense now, why some people defends Zwift (pricing) more than other platforms. :whistle:
 
OP
OP
CXRAndy

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
Steen have you compared it to other general living expenses, every thing has gone up.

Looking at the percentage, it does look like a big jump, but in actual hard currency its only a few quid more per month.

My insurance increase on one car is substantially more than what Zwift have raised their price.
 

Whorty

Gets free watts from the Atom ;)
Location
Wiltshire
Because
Kind
Of
Offering
Lower price platform. You're always welcome back.
I may join you ... but I'm also considering FulGaz. Actually, I was already considering Fulgaz before the price rise as I need to do some longer 'real' rides, and come autumn (after a summer of real outdoor rides) FulGaz may be a better platform. I'm not racing much anyway so one of the major reasons for me being on Zwift currently isn't a big pull.
 

Brusgaard

Über Guru
Location
Skive, Denmark
Steen have you compared it to other general living expenses, every thing has gone up.

Looking at the percentage, it does look like a big jump, but in actual hard currency its only a few quid more per month.

My insurance increase on one car is substantially more than what Zwift have raised their price.

No, I’m not comparing apples to oranges. I am comparing the price of 2 cycling simulators. I also don’t see why we have different pricing for a digital product across the globe. Developing, delivering and support is the same for all, so why should some pay more than others? It is not like when you walk into a physical store, that they say, hey you are from Denmark you pay this price, or hey you are from Zimbabwe you pay that price.

I have the same car as in 2017, and I would wager that the insurance is more or less the same. I would say less than 1000 DKK more for all our insurances combined. Of course we look at the cost of that regularly (as you should!), and changes company if they got a better offer than the current. Think we have had 3-4 different in the 10 years with this car, and now we are back at the one we had 3 years ago. :okay: Somehow they become less greedy, when you have switched to the competition, and offer you better pricing next time… ^_^ I’ll believe it when I see THAT from Strava/Zwift.

But using the cost of insurance is not that suitable, as there are too many variables. The insurance needs changes too much over such a time period. Back then we were focused on getting good insurance benefits for the children (which only very few of them offered) and maybe we paid more for that. Now that they are 16 and 19, that does not apply anymore, which makes it easier to shop around. Change of workplace for me also means only 1/3 of driving (36.000 km -> 12.000 km per year), which also means cheaper insurance. So yes, if EVERYTHING was kept equal, the price hike would be higher, but nothing like 127% thank God!

Yes, it is only a couple of quid extra per month - then multiply that by, lets say 500.000 subscriptions. That is quite a substantial amount of improvement to their cash flow! Netflix, Disney and HBO is also “just a few quid” more per month, but it all adds up.

Looking at wages for the management in high profile companies (and I see Zwift as such in the eCycling business) I see clearly where the money is going. Hint: It is not only going into to developing the next great feature or offering better user support! Also, the management is rarely affected when layoffs are happening, and if so, they often leave with 3 years pay or something similar.

Recently the chairman of a Danish newspaper had to lay off a bunch of people to cut costs. Not long after (days/weeks) he turned 75, and received a cool DKK 2 million as a birthday gift from said newspaper. As he said, he had no problem with that, as it was in his contract. Too bad for him, the press got news of this, and then the governing parties (who partiarly subsidices newspapers) forced him to pay it back.
Another recent case is a Danish billionaire, who was the main shareholder (75%) of a company that caused a landslide, threatening a nearby city and river with toxic waste dirt. Few days into to the still moving landslide, he files for bankruptcy for the company and left the DKK200 million bill for the local tax payers (probably the rest of us too) to pay. To make matters worse, one of his other companies were hired/paid to help move/cleanup the dirt. :wacko: Legally he isn’t required to pay the bill for the cleanup, but he could if he wanted to.
Just shows the poor judgment of many people in the management layer. Private Equity managers/investors are no different. Most of the time it is a pump and dump business strategy.
 

Venod

Eh up
Location
Yorkshire
I’ll believe it when I see THAT from Strava/Zwift.

I had a good 14 months deal with Strava, when it came to renewal they wanted full price, while full Strava has several benefits I decided the free version was sufficient for my needs, so I didn't renew, a few weeks later they enticed me back with a decent reduced offer, I can't see Zwift doing this though.
 

Brusgaard

Über Guru
Location
Skive, Denmark
I had a good 14 months deal with Strava, when it came to renewal they wanted full price, while full Strava has several benefits I decided the free version was sufficient for my needs, so I didn't renew, a few weeks later they enticed me back with a decent reduced offer, I can't see Zwift doing this though.

Yes I got the offer from Strava too, but as I remember it, it was still more expensive than my previous sub. Didn't renew, but might if/when a better offer comes at some time in the future. But yes, the free offering is "good enough" for me at the moment too . Can find more data on Garmin Connect if I wanted too, I think.
 
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alex_cycles

Veteran
Location
Oxfordshire
I'm giving Zwift another year (at the old rate) and we'll see what happens in that time.

In the meantime I'll still be doing some events on indieVelo while it's free. I can't imagine iV will be available for free this time next year though.
I don't think I'll be likely to pay for both at once. Will be forced to choose at that point.

For all the issues around Zwift's behaviour and their apparent reluctance to give a damn about racing, I have really enjoyed racing on the platform, earning upgrades etc. If that changes, I won't be renewing next year.
 

mjd1988

Guru
I'm giving Zwift another year (at the old rate) and we'll see what happens in that time.

In the meantime I'll still be doing some events on indieVelo while it's free. I can't imagine iV will be available for free this time next year though.
I don't think I'll be likely to pay for both at once. Will be forced to choose at that point.

For all the issues around Zwift's behaviour and their apparent reluctance to give a damn about racing, I have really enjoyed racing on the platform, earning upgrades etc. If that changes, I won't be renewing next year.

It would be nice to see a commitment to racing. I mean I just did a race with someone doing obvious sticky watts the whole time, surely that could be auto DQ'd pretty easy (I know there's lots of debate about it but If someone clearly doesn't have a human cadence pattern and spends 50% of time at 6w/kg and the rest at 0 w/kg)
 
OP
OP
CXRAndy

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
It would be nice to see a commitment to racing. I mean I just did a race with someone doing obvious sticky watts the whole time, surely that could be auto DQ'd pretty easy (I know there's lots of debate about it but If someone clearly doesn't have a human cadence pattern and spends 50% of time at 6w/kg and the rest at 0 w/kg)

Ah the famous sawtooth technique. Wasn't it ZRL would Dq anyone caught doing it. Did they catch anyone?
 
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