Zwift Chat

[bridgy]

I detest ZRS, but I think the ZRS plugin is showing negative score changes for some riders that did well, is due to the plugin showing the net change to their ZRS since their last race which was months ago.

They've lost their old 5min seed from the previous 90 days, they've then had this silly ZRS decay because they haven't raced for 30 days, so their ZRS has dropped like a stone... Far more than the ZRS points gains in this recent race for position; podium bonus and any new 5min seed score 90-day best.

There are so many flaws with ZRS, I honesty think it's worse than all other Zwift racing systems I've raced under since '18, Zwiftpower (average of best three 95% of 20mins W/Kg in last 90 days) and Category Enforcement (pen allocation based on predicted 6min and 40min+ ability).

Ah yes I think you're right. So ZP is showing the drop in ZRS from what it was in their last race - which was months ago - rather than from what it actually was immediately before the race after several months of decay.

Zwift have never got categories right in my opinion. I think ZRS has some elements of the right idea in that it takes account of race results which the other systems didn't, but as usual it's been done half heartedly. The best category system I've seen is the one on Zwiftracing.app which I think Zwift should have just used (having paid the guy who created it for his efforts of course) instead of the half-arsed version of ZRS they've used. DIRT Racing Series uses that system of categorisation and it makes for really good, competitive racing with few complaints.

Zwift just don't care enough about racing to put the effort and resources in to ensuring it works well unfortunately

 

[bridgy]

I still have problems in working out what's a race that does affect ZRS scores and what's one that doesn't. Did a long (for Zwift) 50km race on Saturday which did use ZRS scores to set the pens, but when I looked at the results afterwards it didn't actually seem to change anyone's scores. Surely if you're going to use them pre-race, they should affect you post-race or am I reading too much into this?

I think the race organiser can choose whether or not to have the results affect the ZRS of riders - even if it's a race where ZRS is used to decide which pen you're in. What I don't know is wether there's any way to know whether they've set it to affect your ZRS or not BEFORE you see the race results!

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

Ah yes I think you're right. So ZP is showing the drop in ZRS from what it was in their last race - which was months ago - rather than from what it actually was immediately before the race after several months of decay.

Zwift have never got categories right in my opinion. I think ZRS has some elements of the right idea in that it takes account of race results which the other systems didn't, but as usual it's been done half heartedly. The best category system I've seen is the one on Zwiftracing.app which I think Zwift should have just used (having paid the guy who created it for his efforts of course) instead of the half-arsed version of ZRS they've used. DIRT Racing Series uses that system of categorisation and it makes for really good, competitive racing with few complaints.

Zwift just don't care enough about racing to put the effort and resources in to ensuring it works well unfortunately

I'm going to try and be very restrained and not moan about ZRS in detail today, there's so much wrong IMO in how it operates and I agree, the vELO system used at https://www.zwiftracing.app/ works so much better.

Anyway...

Zwift Unlocked starts today, double XP, short/long ride options with late joining on the hour from 1700 BST and races on the short course from 1710 BST for those of us that aren't ZRS aliens.
You could warm up in the short ride for some double XP before joining the race pen, those averaging 4W/Kg+ might even finish the race in time to late join a ride that began ~10mins before the race started.

 

[Whorty]

That looks really odd how the 1st, 2nd and 9th riders appear to have a big drop in ZRS, which in itself is odd, but if true should mean they shouldn't have even been able to join that pen with their previous ZRS (as the boundary was up to 330)! I don't know what's going on there at all!

We had one guy who went over the first KoM with us (about 25th on the road at that point). The leaders were well gone, then he suddenly left our little group for dead as he trundled off at over 4 w/kg for what felt like multiple minutes. This was 20 mins into the race and those in our group were at 2.5 w/kg and breathing out of our @rses haha I have a feeling he may have been intentionally tanking his ZRS If someone can still ride at over 4 w/kg, on the flat, after 20 minutes of hard effort including a KoM, they probably aren't D haha

We need to bring back the cone of shame - that was always funny to watch in the crit races

 

[Whorty]

Yes that was bothering me too. Neither of the first two had raced in 6 months but I don't really understand how their score then went down. The guy in second is a B so had been riding in higher quality fields beforehand.

I can understand that being out for 6 months reduces your score but then winning your race destroys it? Are they still refining this system or is it just going to linger in current form

I've been out for 6 months and my score didn't change in that time - then after that race, even though I was at the back half of the field, my score remained unchanged.

It just doesn't feel to me like they have got this working at all. I'll just continue to pick races that I fancy, and check the field to make sure (based on w/kg which is still a reliable indicator) that I won't get dropped the first few minutes.

It speaks volumes to me that even after all this time very few (any?) none Zwift races series are using ZRS.

 

[Whorty]

that makes sense but its a really confusing way to visualise it.

I don't like it either but i do think if there are at least 3 different scoring systems at least people can't hyperfixate on ways to cheat all of them. maybe? Not much of an upside

I've figured my 'cheat' - do a hair and hounds, convince the rest of my cat to work together as a team (whilst I wheel suck at the back) then jump them all on the final sprint to win the race.
And then hope that they don't remember me next time we ride together, that I was a douche-bag I was

 

[mjd1988]

I've figured my 'cheat' - do a hair and hounds, convince the rest of my cat to work together as a team (whilst I wheel suck at the back) then jump them all on the final sprint to win the race.
And then hope that they don't remember me next time we ride together, that I was a douche-bag I was

I'm a terrible person to be in a hare and hounds with as well - i do the same then when our group gets caught I attack and latch onto the faster group. No honour at all 😂

 

[Whorty]

I'm a terrible person to be in a hare and hounds with as well - i do the same then when our group gets caught I attack and latch onto the faster group. No honour at all 😂

Same haha ...

 

[bridgy]

I've been out for 6 months and my score didn't change in that time - then after that race, even though I was at the back half of the field, my score remained unchanged.

It just doesn't feel to me like they have got this working at all. I'll just continue to pick races that I fancy, and check the field to make sure (based on w/kg which is still a reliable indicator) that I won't get dropped the first few minutes.

It speaks volumes to me that even after all this time very few (any?) none Zwift races series are using ZRS.

You were 21st out of 41 (not everyone's on Zwiftpower) so just in the front half - you would therefore expect a slight increase in your ZRS because generally the top half of finishers get a ZRS increase and the bottom half a decrease. And it now looks like your Racing Score went up by 9 - there must have been a delay in the changes showing up (for some reason!).

I guess a reason your score may not have decayed would be if it was already at or around your seed score "floor"

 

[Whorty]

You were 21st out of 41 (not everyone's on Zwiftpower) so just in the front half - you would therefore expect a slight increase in your ZRS because generally the top half of finishers get a ZRS increase and the bottom half a decrease. And it now looks like your Racing Score went up by 9 - there must have been a delay in the changes showing up (for some reason!).

I guess a reason your score may not have decayed would be if it was already at or around your seed score "floor"

This is where ZRS is so flawed. Directly after the race it showed in the companion app as a drop of 2. Then it was back to 261. Now it's gone up 9 a day (more) after the race.

I can see why people still have very little confidence in this.

I'm just going to ignore the score, it's meaningless. I'll just choose races that I fancy, and make sure I'm only in pens with riders of a similar ability to me (based on w/kg which is still the best predictor of who gets dropped when on a given course).

 

[alex_cycles]

ZRL this morning. I got 11th on points. A team-mate got 7th, but we only had 5 so 6th overall today and 6th in the League.

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/w3INQRvpApc?si=F6JsKiT-s_16rQlm&t=507

 

[bridgy]

ZRL this morning. I got 11th on points. A team-mate got 7th, but we only had 5 so 6th overall today and 5th in the League.

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/w3INQRvpApc?si=F6JsKiT-s_16rQlm&t=507

Well done Alex - Michael, Tim and Bram go in our team at 6.30pm. I'm going to try and be some help with DS notes and encouragement on Discord!

 

[alex_cycles]

Well done Alex - Michael, Tim and Bram go in our team at 6.30pm. I'm going to try and be some help with DS notes and encouragement on Discord!

Thanks. This was the summary I sent our team (if it's any use)...

Last-minute summary...
Stay in the front group as long as possible. Consistent performance through the FALs will be worth more than one or two high scores then getting dropped.
Use the first aero on JWB sprint
Use the Van for Jarvis sprint rev
Use the Feather Powerup on the second steep part of the KoM rev
Make sure to use or get rid of the burrito before Jarvis lap banner
Save the second Aero (from Jarvis Lap Banner) for the next JWB Sprint.

Then do it all again.

 

[bridgy]

Thanks. This was the summary I sent our team (if it's any use)...

Thanks mate

 

[mjd1988]

We absolutely crushed that under Paul's stewartship. And I managed to get downgraded to C. A perfect race 😂