Team BKool CycleChat

[CXRAndy]

Bridgy Bkool pro
Manual F EC........................automatic
150W 19.88mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,19.5mph
200W 22.24mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,21.43mph
250W 23.98mph....................23.92mph
300W 25.84mph....................25.28mph
350W 27.33mph....................27.46mph
400W 29.2mph......................28.89mph

Bob Bkool pro
150W~-18.9
200W~-21.9
250W~-23.4
300W~-26.1
350W~-27.4
400W~-30.00

Andy CXR Kickr
150W~19mph
200W~21.5mph
250W~23.7mph
300W~25.3mph
350W~27.5mph
400W~28.6mph

 

[bobinski]

Bridgy speed
Manual F EC........................automatic
150W 19.88mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,19.5mph
200W 22.24mph,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,21.43mph
250W 23.98mph....................23.92mph
300W 25.84mph....................25.28mph
350W 27.33mph....................27.46mph
400W 29.2mph......................28.89mph

Bob
150W~19mph-18.9
200W~21.5mph-21.9
250W~23.7mph-23.4
300W~25.3mph-26.1
350W~27.5mph-27.4
400W~28.6mph-30.00

Andy,
What if anything do you think this limited testing tells us? It would seem on the flat there is no discernible difference between power output/speed whether auto or manual connecting and therefore no advantage given to bkool turbo's. Perhaps we should try a slope?

 

[CXRAndy]

Andy,
What if anything do you think this limited testing tells us? It would seem on the flat there is no discernible difference between power output/speed whether auto or manual connecting and therefore no advantage given to bkool turbo's. Perhaps we should try a slope?

I agree, there seems to be little difference on a flat session, saying that, looking at the velodrome recently I was putting out average power near to you and Ryan but came a few minutes down on time. There is some differences/anomaly in how Bkool interprets data from different trainers.
It recently became obvious in the Summer Cup when Graham Ash with his kickr came 5-10 mins slower per race than AAAC despite developing more(unbelievable) power and with better W/KG.

 

[rob01792]

Maybe its down to drafting

 

[CXRAndy]

Maybe its down to drafting

I don't it is, Bob finished sort of mid pack alone. My second attempt with Ryan. He was dropped from Bob and was circling alone mainly. I will rerun the velodrome on a bloom pro soon and then will be able to compare then. If there isn't much difference, then it's me who is crap and is exhibting poor loser syndrome

 

[RickB]

Anybody know if yesterdays updates have solved any glitches or created more??

 

[bridgy]

I don't it is, Bob finished sort of mud pack alone. My second attempt with Ryan. He was dropped from Bob and was circling alone mainly. I will rerun the velodrome on a bloom pro soon and then will be able to compare then. If there isn't much difference, then it's me who is crap and is exhibting poor loser syndrome

It could be other factors such as differences in how power is recorded at the peaks and toughs of effort maybe? Also, power doesn't instantly go to zero if you stop pedalling on the Bkool trainer, it will reduce slowly with the speed. Maybe your Kickr somehow shows a quicker reduction in recorded power when you ease off - this would mount up over a session, even if speed was the same at a given steady power (which our experiment seemed to suggest)? I don't know how other trainers work but for Bkool ones the power's almost irrelevant as your time is dictated by your speed, which is the true speed recorded by the roller - the power's worked out from the speed not the other way round.

With other smart trainers, do you know if they work the same - i.e do they tell the Bkool software your speed as recorded by the roller or direct mount cassette, and then Bkool works out power as with the Bkool Pro, or do they report power to Bkool, and speed is then worked out by the software?

 

[theboxers]

Anybody know if yesterdays updates have solved any glitches or created more??

Have you tried to schedule a session yet?

 

[bridgy]

Anybody know if yesterdays updates have solved any glitches or created more??

Apart from making the Bkool website painfully slow, I didn't notice any differences when I went in yesterday. Not that I did anything too challenging!

 

[theboxers]

I don't it is, Bob finished sort of mud pack alone. My second attempt with Ryan. He was dropped from Bob and was circling alone mainly. I will rerun the velodrome on a bloom pro soon and then will be able to compare then. If there isn't much difference, then it's me who is crap and is exhibting poor loser syndrome

Was this done on a phone with auto correct enabled?

 

[theboxers]

Just looked @ Facebook ( or the book of stupid as I know it), it's the only place to get any updates apparently. They are experiencing technical problems with the route browser and will get it up and running asap .

 

[CXRAndy]

Bridgy, that is one aspect I have noticed. Peaks and troughs are sharp with the Kickr and smoother on the bkool pro.

 

[gbrown]

I agree, there seems to be little difference on a flat session, saying that, looking at the velodrome recently I was putting out average power near to you and Ryan but came a few minutes down on time. There is some differences/anomaly in how Bkool interprets data from different trainers.
It recently became obvious in the Summer Cup when Graham Ash with his kickr came 5-10 mins slower per race than AAAC despite developing more(unbelievable) power and with better W/KG.

I don't think the test proves anything, unless you are using a properly calibrated power meter to measure the wattage!

If using a bkool trainer, then the wattage is calculated from the speed, so at the same speed the wattage will be the same. This doesn't mean that the the effort is the same, as you may have to be producing more actual power to achieve the desired speed but be credited with the same power as the displayed power is just calculated from the speed.

I tried getting my head around this a while ago, doing lots of tests, and as the speed, power, resistance, etc. is all controlled by the software and not necessarily accurate or consistent, in the end I don't think I proved anything. You need something solid (calibrated) to hang the rest of the tests off. With just a Bkool trainer you just don't have that.

In theory, if you use proper power meters to maintain an actual wattage, then you may see variations in speed and displayed power.

For those with proper power meters, it should be valuable to compare the actual power with the displayed power using the various pairing methods.

I have wondered if it is possible to pair the KICKR as a smart trainer, but use the KICKR's power meter to display power (and/or calculate speed).

At least, you could try using an iphone to set the KICKR into erg mode and maintain, say, 200 Watts and see what the bkool software displays for speed and power using the different pairing modes, auto, manual, FEC, power meter, etc.

I'd try it myself, if it was safe for me to do 200 watts!

Geoff

 

[bobinski]

I don't it is, Bob finished sort of mid pack alone. My second attempt with Ryan. He was dropped from Bob and was circling alone mainly. I will rerun the velodrome on a bloom pro soon and then will be able to compare then. If there isn't much difference, then it's me who is crap and is exhibting poor loser syndrome

I preferred "mud pack" though how you know i carry out my beauty treatment when on the turbo is a touch worrying..

Nahh, there are clearly anomalies. Personally i think Bill and Bridgy have faster units
Perhaps we should get a few people together to try the test together and see what happens. I also like geoffs suggestion about using the iphone to set the kickr in erg mode.

 

[theboxers]

If using a bkool trainer, then the wattage is calculated from the speed, so at the same speed the wattage will be the same. This doesn't mean that the the effort is the same, as you may have to be producing more actual power to achieve the desired speed but be credited with the same power as the displayed power is just calculated from the speed.

Snip

Geoff

It is not only speed that is used to calculate power on bsim. The handicap sessions have shown me that registered weight and gradient are also used. There is a 30 odd watt difference + and - to my actual readings on the vectors. Normal 128kg weight up to 6% and Bkool reads about 20-30w more (sometimes higher), over 6% all bets are off as the resistance appears to max out at the speeds I can do for this weight. Handicap weight of 30kg and the readings are 20-30w low on bsim.

I have not done a session with a weight of 60-80kg as a test to see what happens, yet. But I may do in the future.