Team BKool CycleChat

[bridgy]

I don't think the test proves anything, unless you are using a properly calibrated power meter to measure the wattage!

If using a bkool trainer, then the wattage is calculated from the speed, so at the same speed the wattage will be the same. This doesn't mean that the the effort is the same, as you may have to be producing more actual power to achieve the desired speed but be credited with the same power as the displayed power is just calculated from the speed.

I tried getting my head around this a while ago, doing lots of tests, and as the speed, power, resistance, etc. is all controlled by the software and not necessarily accurate or consistent, in the end I don't think I proved anything. You need something solid (calibrated) to hang the rest of the tests off. With just a Bkool trainer you just don't have that.

In theory, if you use proper power meters to maintain an actual wattage, then you may see variations in speed and displayed power.

For those with proper power meters, it should be valuable to compare the actual power with the displayed power using the various pairing methods.

I have wondered if it is possible to pair the KICKR as a smart trainer, but use the KICKR's power meter to display power (and/or calculate speed).

At least, you could try using an iphone to set the KICKR into erg mode and maintain, say, 200 Watts and see what the bkool software displays for speed and power using the different pairing modes, auto, manual, FEC, power meter, etc.

I'd try it myself, if it was safe for me to do 200 watts!

Geoff

Geoff, I think Andy's tests were just to understand whether the watts/speed on the Bkool matched the watts/speed on the Kickr. The tests seem to suggest they are pretty much the same, but there may be other factors that effect average watts over a full session.

Do you know if the Kickr measures speed, and then lets Bkool software calculate power based on this speed (plus slope/rider weight etc) like the Bkool Pro does, or whether it broadcasts its own power data to the Bkool software which then uses that to work out speed?

 

[rob01792]

Tonight's Handicap Chase is a special Handicap Climb with adjusted rider weights to equalize Watts/Kg

Session is password protected, password is announced in the main thread as soon as the session is up and running!

Course is Chapel Fell

The warm-up will start close to 8:00pm BST (UTC+1) to ensure the race starts around 8:10pm BST (UTC+1).

Everyone taking part should adjust their weight to the allocated value before entering the warm up, preferably with at least 5 minutes to go.

Weights are generally reduced, in some cases considerably, to achieve the target Watts/Kg, so speeds should be higher than usual. The main part of the session should not take more than around 20 minutes, and in any case less than 30 minutes, to avoid changing Fitness Levels. Anyone taking longer than 30 minutes would be advised to discard their session without saving.

The Start (for everyone) should be between 8:05 and 8:10, when the warm-up ends.

Once underway, there is a short neutralized zone (0.0625 miles or 0.1 km) to avoid taking advantage of the lowered resistance at start, where no-one is allowed to overtake @JLaw (or if he is not present, you must gradually increase speed to a maximum of 20 mph (32 kph) until you pass the 0.0625 (0.1 km) point.

If anyone else wants to take part, please can you let us know here and we can work out a weight Handicap from your FTP power value or similar.

Geoff is my weight correct normally u have me around about 42kg

 

[JLaw]

I don't think the test proves anything, unless you are using a properly calibrated power meter to measure the wattage!

If using a bkool trainer, then the wattage is calculated from the speed, so at the same speed the wattage will be the same. This doesn't mean that the the effort is the same, as you may have to be producing more actual power to achieve the desired speed but be credited with the same power as the displayed power is just calculated from the speed.

I tried getting my head around this a while ago, doing lots of tests, and as the speed, power, resistance, etc. is all controlled by the software and not necessarily accurate or consistent, in the end I don't think I proved anything. You need something solid (calibrated) to hang the rest of the tests off. With just a Bkool trainer you just don't have that.

In theory, if you use proper power meters to maintain an actual wattage, then you may see variations in speed and displayed power.

For those with proper power meters, it should be valuable to compare the actual power with the displayed power using the various pairing methods.

I have wondered if it is possible to pair the KICKR as a smart trainer, but use the KICKR's power meter to display power (and/or calculate speed).

At least, you could try using an iphone to set the KICKR into erg mode and maintain, say, 200 Watts and see what the bkool software displays for speed and power using the different pairing modes, auto, manual, FEC, power meter, etc.

I'd try it myself, if it was safe for me to do 200 watts!

Geoff

At one time I had my garmin head unit on receiving data from the kickr and was able to compare with the bkool sim's notion of watts and speed. IIRC, the sim consistently had a higher speed than the kickr, but wattage was comparable between the two.

 

[Bored Man]

Afternoon all..

Can anyone offer any guidance with this please?
If I click on the recent veledrome session we completed and enter the rankings etc, for some reason I appear to not be a member of the group.

http://www.bkool.com/profile/detail/875?durationType=DISTANCE&lapCount=120

Any ideas please?

I think it's because I ride a hybrid and the system is a little embarrassed?.

PS. Looking forward to watching your hill climb tonight.. best of luck..

 

[bridgy]

Afternoon all..

Can anyone offer any guidance with this please?
If I click on the recent veledrome session we completed and enter the rankings etc, for some reason I appear to not be a member of the group.

http://www.bkool.com/profile/detail/875?durationType=DISTANCE&lapCount=120

Any ideas please?

I think it's because I ride a hybrid and the system is a little embarrassed?.

PS. Looking forward to watching your hill climb tonight.. best of luck..

The velodrome session had to be "botched" a bit to be a league ride as Bkool won't let you include a velodrome session in a league. So the actual velodrome session isn't the league ride. That's why we had to ride a couple of minutes of the Col De La Madeleine route, and then Bill could amend that to your velodrome time to get around it.

 

[theboxers]

Afternoon all..

Can anyone offer any guidance with this please?
If I click on the recent veledrome session we completed and enter the rankings etc, for some reason I appear to not be a member of the group.

http://www.bkool.com/profile/detail/875?durationType=DISTANCE&lapCount=120

Any ideas please?

I think it's because I ride a hybrid and the system is a little embarrassed?.

PS. Looking forward to watching your hill climb tonight.. best of luck..

If you are looking for your league competitors it will show their affiliation in the group column. Some are in other groups/leagues as well as the one you are looking at and that one may be shown instead. However the group/league you are in is not shown. On my list you are in the chaingang league

 

[bridgy]

Afternoon all..

Can anyone offer any guidance with this please?
If I click on the recent veledrome session we completed and enter the rankings etc, for some reason I appear to not be a member of the group.

http://www.bkool.com/profile/detail/875?durationType=DISTANCE&lapCount=120

Any ideas please?

I think it's because I ride a hybrid and the system is a little embarrassed?.

PS. Looking forward to watching your hill climb tonight.. best of luck..

Sorry - I think I see what you mean. You're seeing a number of other people as members of "Cyclechat Chaingang", but not yourself, right? That's normal - it doesn't put that next to your own name - looks the same for me!

Edit: Boxers beat me to it!

 

[Bored Man]

If you are looking for your league competitors it will show their affiliation in the group column. Some are in other groups/leagues as well as the one you are looking at and that one may be shown instead. However the group/league you are in is not shown. On my list you are in the chaingang league

Thank you Boxers & Bridgy, much happier noo..

 

[gbrown]

PS. Looking forward to watching your hill climb tonight.. best of luck..

Join in?

 

[gbrown]

Geoff is my weight correct normally u have me around about 42kg

The last time I recorded this stage for you, you ran away with it and your normalized power was 278.6 Watts, which is why your heavier.

You do seem to vary a lot in sustained power, is it to do with the different profiles?

 

[gbrown]

It is not only speed that is used to calculate power on bsim. The handicap sessions have shown me that registered weight and gradient are also used. There is a 30 odd watt difference + and - to my actual readings on the vectors. Normal 128kg weight up to 6% and Bkool reads about 20-30w more (sometimes higher), over 6% all bets are off as the resistance appears to max out at the speeds I can do for this weight. Handicap weight of 30kg and the readings are 20-30w low on bsim.

I have not done a session with a weight of 60-80kg as a test to see what happens, yet. But I may do in the future.

Weight is not directly a factor, it's just the presumed resistance of the trainer and the measured speed of the roller.

However, the resistance is set depending on a range of software factors, including your declared weight, gradient to be simulated, etc.

As the trainers are not calibrated and do not have a power meter to measure actual resistance, the resistance curve will not be consistent and hence will differ from the resistance required by varying amounts, hence the power measurements diverge from reality by varying amounts, depending on the resistance required. In reality, it is a difficult thing to control the resistance and keep it anywhere near accurate, as the magnetic braking varies so much depending on the speed of the brake, the temperature, the distance and strength of the magnets, the uniformity of the metal in the brake, etc.etc.

Hence, the power calculated from the speed of the roller (and the presumed resistance of the roller) will vary widely from any measured power depending on any factor that affects the required or actual resistance of the roller.

Geoff

 

[rob01792]

The last time I recorded this stage for you, you ran away with it and your normalized power was 278.6 Watts, which is why your heavier.

You do seem to vary a lot in sustained power, is it to do with the different profiles?

I'm not to sure is it the short step section ok let give it ago at that weight see how it compares to the last time

 

[rob01792]

what has bkool done u cant see all the league ride only seam to show the current ones when u click on the chosen league on the website

 

[theboxers]

what has bkool done u cant see all the league ride only seam to show the current ones when u click on the chosen league on the website

Something else broken as well as the route browser

 

[Bored Man]

I've just tried to look up the Chapel Fell ride in the session tab... page won't load - discombuberated.