The Armstrong Lie

[ufkacbln]

I don't think he has done any real lasting damage, most people think cycling is/was dirty, yet millions turned out to watch the TDF in England irrespective of Armstrong and his doping...its done, gone, most people just don't care about Armstrong or the other dopers of the past..
BUT
I think within the next 10 - 15 years Armstrong will again be recognised as a great cyclist who won 7 TDF's, not officially, the fact he is an American will help alot and the character of the man, I just can't see him fading away into obscurity, even this film has change many peoples views on him..

Look at the "reverence" with which Tom Simpson is regarded

He was also a cheat and took illegal drugs to enhance his performance, yet this has somehow become an acceptable part of his "legend", and his death through the misuse of drugs somehow a heroic event

 

[Ganymede]

Look at the "reverence" with which Tom Simpson is regarded

He was also a cheat and took illegal drugs to enhance his performance, yet this has somehow become an acceptable part of his "legend", and his death through the misuse of drugs somehow a heroic event

But LA is still alive. That and the fact that he was such a manipulator. Die young and a halo surrounds you because of how unbearable it is to contemplate.

 

[Crackle]

Look at the "reverence" with which Tom Simpson is regarded

He was also a cheat and took illegal drugs to enhance his performance, yet this has somehow become an acceptable part of his "legend", and his death through the misuse of drugs somehow a heroic event

They're not comparable, except by you. You keep bringing this up like you have a point when you don't. Armstrong the Sociopath versus Gentleman Tom. And we know about the drugs, we all read Kimmage's book when it came out, you seem unable to contextualise this.

 

[ufkacbln]

Simpson was a cheat who used drugs to enhance his performance......even if done in a nice gentlemanly way

Or are you denying that he was a cheat?

 

[ufkacbln]

As for contextualising.....

It is quite a simple context

Cheating is unacceptable

Performance enhancing drugs are unacceptable

We should be condemning anyone who has cheated or taken performance enhancing drugs


It is hypocritical to accept the behaviour in some and not others


The fact that you only seem to be able to think in terms of Armstrong is not really my problem

 

[Crackle]

Ah the black and white argument, beloved of so many. In fact my response to Simpson is many layered. Why don't you compare Armstrong and Pantani, contemporaries viewed in entirely different lights.

 

[rich p]

As for contextualising.....

It is quite a simple context

Cheating is unacceptable

Performance enhancing drugs are unacceptable

We should be condemning anyone who has cheated or taken performance enhancing drugs


It is hypocritical to accept the behaviour in some and not others


The fact that you only seem to be able to think in terms of Armstrong is not really my problem

But does USADA have jurisdiction?

 

[ufkacbln]

Ah the black and white argument, beloved of so many. In fact my response to Simpson is many layered. Why don't you compare Armstrong and Pantani, contemporaries viewed in entirely different lights.

Once again - why the Armstrong fixation?

All those who cheat should be censured and scorned

Cheating is cheating

 

[ufkacbln]

Punishing one person appropriately to set an example isn't accepting the behaviour in others.

Yet we still see the sad hero worship of other cheats

That is what we should be questioning

 

[ufkacbln]

But does USADA have jurisdiction?

Given that the USADA was founded in 1999 and became operational in 2000... and Simpson died in 1967, I suspect not in his case

 

[Crackle]

Once again - why the Armstrong fixation?

All those who cheat should be censured and scorned

Cheating is cheating

Simpson was of his time. Cycling in a time which was only just beginning to have drug tests, the first one in the tour was 1966 against a background of 30 years of open usage of preparations. His death was seminal in the setting up of drug controls around the world. It was also tragic. Amphetamines, dehydration, alchohol and their effects were poorly understood. You think we'd no better now and yet amphetamines were only banned from American baseball in 2005.

Armstrong is entirely different, he stands out from all other dopers for the sheer scale of his deception and the lengths he went to conceal it. There's no comparison between him and Simpson. There is no fixation either, the sport has moved on and so have I. Like Simpson, I view him in a historical context now.

 

[rich p]

Once again - why the Armstrong fixation?

All those who cheat should be censured and scorned

Cheating is cheating

Crackle, why are you so fixated with Armstrong?
Why don't you ever post about all the other dopers, the TdF, the T de Suisse, the T of Qatar, the Cookson Chronicles, the women's pro-tour....blah blah blah....
...oh, hang on a minute - my mistake - you do. Maybe it's some other bloke I was thinking of, who only ever pops out of the woodwork when Sir Lancelot is mentioned.

 

[User269]

 

[ufkacbln]

Crackle, why are you so fixated with Armstrong?
Why don't you ever post about all the other dopers, the TdF, the T de Suisse, the T of Qatar, the Cookson Chronicles, the women's pro-tour....blah blah blah....
...oh, hang on a minute - my mistake - you do. Maybe it's some other bloke I was thinking of, who only ever pops out of the woodwork when Sir Lancelot is mentioned.

Which nicely avoid the points made

 

[rich p]

Which nicely avoid the points made

They were dealt with years back. Move on.