The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[mjr]

I think you're missing totallyfixed's point. The majority of offs cyclists experience do not involve another vehicle. They'll be caused by something environmental (e.g. diesel on the road) or because of rider error.

No, I get the point, I'm just interested in how big the difference might be. I'm not going to keep asking for the evidence but I am curious if there was any or if that's simply parroting the widespread shared belief.

The other rebuke to this is that if a crash is minor anyway, a helmet probably doesn't offer much benefit over a cheaper, lighter, warmer/cooler hat - indeed, if the "impaired decision-making" or "risk compensation" theories are true, a helmet may be increasing what you call "rider error".

 

[MontyVeda]

No, because it's a ridiculous comparison.

Really??

We are discussing helmets and the prevention of head injuries remember.

Oh but... this is a cycling forum so mentioning other activities is clearly ridiculous... yes i remember, we've been here before.

 

[Justinslow]

Absolutely....


...but totallyfixed isn't arguing otherwise.

If you are unlucky enough to have an accident it will nearly always be through misjudgement / lack of skill on your part,

Ummmmm...........

 

[Justinslow]

We are discussing helmets and the prevention of head injuries remember.

Yes all "cycling" head injuries not just "severe" ones. What's "right" for you may not be "right" for others.

 

[Justinslow]

And your point is? You seem to have misunderstood what my post #1613 was actually saying. Try reading it again.

Ok, to take one of your points - "diesel on the road" misjudgement? Or lack of skill? Or just plain unlucky?

 

[MontyVeda]

Yes all "cycling" head injuries not just "severe" ones. What's "right" for you may not be "right" for others.

yes, absolutely.... i was simply trying to highlight the inconsistency in your thinking when it comes to preventing head injuries... but you clearly don't want to open that door.

 

[Justinslow]

Try reading my post #1610. And having a point to your question...

Jeez 1613, 1610......
Sorry my phone isn't displaying post numbers.......

 

[Justinslow]

yes, absolutely.... i was simply trying to highlight the inconsistency in your thinking when it comes to preventing head injuries... but you clearly don't want to open that door.

Let's keep on topic then!
"Preventing head injuries in cycling"
If I want to discuss "preventing head injuries in the kitchen" maybe I'll go on a "Delia cooking forum"..........
Trying to dilute the issue by talking about other "everyday life" occurrences is just plain waffle IMO.

 

[MontyVeda]

Let's keep on topic then!
"Preventing head injuries in cycling"
If I want to discuss "preventing head injuries in the kitchen" maybe I'll go on a "Delia cooking forum"..........
Trying to dilute the issue by talking about other "everyday life" occurrences is just plain waffle IMO.

'dilute the issue' ??
i really should be wearing a helmet but....

 

[Justinslow]

Turn it sideways.

Thankyou.
It's just assumption apon assumption. But as @User mentioned diesel, or ice or wet leaves or mud or a pothole or a join in the road or whatever, are these all "rider misjudgment" or "poor skill"?

 

[Justinslow]

Why do think that they might be? Who has suggested that?

If you are unlucky enough to have an accident it will nearly always be through misjudgement / lack of skill on your part, not the actions of a third party.

 

[martint235]

Let's keep on topic then!
"Preventing head injuries in cycling"
If I want to discuss "preventing head injuries in the kitchen" maybe I'll go on a "Delia cooking forum"..........
Trying to dilute the issue by talking about other "everyday life" occurrences is just plain waffle IMO.

So back on topic then, where is there anything to suggest that a cycle helmet will actually help in a real world cycling accident?? Given all that has been said about cycling accidents and the efficacy of helmets I still haven't seen anything that would suggest that a helmet is better than just taping the £80 to your head and cutting out the manufacturer.

 

[Mugshot]

Justin as you have displayed in other threads, and indeed previously on this one, you have spotted a straw which you are now desperately grasping on to. In case you've forgotten here is your original list which you felt represented the dangerous aspects of cycling.

cycling at speed, cycling too close to traffic whilst filtering, cycling too close to parked vehicles, cycling too close to the edge of the road, cycling in slippery conditions etc.

So rather than only concentrating on slippery conditions because somebody else mentioned it, why don't you try addressing some of the other things you raised?

 

[MontyVeda]

So back on topic then, where is there anything to suggest that a cycle helmet will actually help in a real world cycling accident??....

plenty... there's the low speed falls where it'll possibly prevent a bump or a graze... much like a woolly hat would. I always wear my trusty woolly hat in winter, even when walking to the shop.

 

[Justinslow]

Justin as you have displayed in other threads, and indeed previously on this one, you have spotted a straw which you are now desperately grasping on to. In case you've forgotten here is your original list which you felt represented the dangerous aspects of cycling.



So rather than only concentrating on slippery conditions because somebody else mentioned it, why don't you try addressing some of the other things you raised?

Justin as you have displayed in other threads, and indeed previously on this one, you have spotted a straw which you are now desperately grasping on to. In case you've forgotten here is your original list which you felt represented the dangerous aspects of cycling.



So rather than only concentrating on slippery conditions because somebody else mentioned it, why don't you try addressing some of the other things you raised?

Well actually i mentioned aswell.....
Many on here paint a broad picture which they think covers all cycling, IMO this is not the case, there are many different facets of cycling and some are dangerous and many different scenarios of accidents. Some seemingly innocuous cycling activities can quickly become dangerous eg where children are involved.
When I'm training for a 3up TT and riding a few inches from someone's rear wheel am I an idiot with no skill? I'm taking lots of risks obviously but I have to do it to get better, to work as a team.
If riding along a busy road minding my own business and someone in a car cuts me up am I being "wreckless"?
The point is we all ride differently and if I choose to wear a helmet as I think it MIGHT offer me some protection in the event of an off then I will.