The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Justinslow]

We also know of other activities where a helmet 'might' help... but you don't want to consider those do you? I wonder why.

Because they are not cycling related......

 

[martint235]

Except the medical professionals at the time saying so based on their experiences of seeing the results of accidents where different levels of clothing/helmets have been used over many years.
Just how do you go about "proving" whether they helped or not?

This is why the thread keeps going round in circles. Medical professionals are just that, professionals at applying medicine. They may see many head injuries but they don't see the conditions or the situations. To them it's just "he was cycling and came off" not "he was doing fast single track" or "he was pootling along a cycle path and got tangled in a dog lead". They are not even looking at the actual situation before commenting and so I'm afraid it's as much use as "my mate came off but he was wearing a helmet so he didn't die"

This is why we need helmet manufacturers to stand up and publish their tests and findings. As I've said before, if these were in any way conclusive we'd know about them. It's the absence that is damning.

 

[Justinslow]

We have done this so many times before. Medical professionals always say that, in my experience. This is despite the fact that their experience, as you put it, makes them no more informed as to how the situation would have played out with or without, as appropriate.It is yet another example of the drip feed of pro helmet propaganda by people passing their opinion off as knowledge.

In some instances this is true, but how and who can tell if a helmet did any good?

 

[Profpointy]

In some instances this is true, but how and who can tell if a helmet did any good?

yebbutt - we know they don't do much, if any good on average, so it's rather a "so what?" question on whether they did or didn't help / make things worse in a particular instance.

 

[MontyVeda]

Because they are not cycling related......

we both know that's not the real reason... you're just ducking away from acknowledging the inconsistency in your logic when it comes to protecting your skull.

 

[Justinslow]

This is why the thread keeps going round in circles. Medical professionals are just that, professionals at applying medicine. They may see many head injuries but they don't see the conditions or the situations. To them it's just "he was cycling and came off" not "he was doing fast single track" or "he was pootling along a cycle path and got tangled in a dog lead". They are not even looking at the actual situation before commenting and so I'm afraid it's as much use as "my mate came off but he was wearing a helmet so he didn't die"

This is why we need helmet manufacturers to stand up and publish their tests and findings. As I've said before, if these were in any way conclusive we'd know about them. It's the absence that is damning.

Let's get a petition going then and Lobby them and the government. Power to the people and all that.

 

[martint235]

Just as an example this is from Specialized own website for one of their top road helmets:

"The S-Works Prevail Team helmet is the ultimate lightweight racing helmet, combining incredible ventilation, aerodynamic design, and ultra-light construction for the best all-around performance. Even better, it now features a new high-performance pad design for enhanced comfort—all in a package that displays your devotion to your favourite pro cycling outfit.

• Patented Energy Optimized Multi-Density EPS construction helps to manage impact energy.
• Patented Aramid-Reinforced Skeleton provides internal EPS support.
• Ultra-light Mindset micro-dial fit system with height adjustability for the perfect fit.
• Mega Mouthport optimizes cooling and sweat evaporation.
• 4th Dimension Cooling System with deep internal channels, large vents, and aligned exhaust ports.
• Thin, soft, and lightweight 4X DryLite webbing won’t stretch out with sweat or water.
• Tri-Fix web splitter for improved comfort and ease of strap adjustments.
• Instrap webbing system for ultra-light construction and security.
• High-performance pad design for increased comfort and sweat management."

You'll note it doesn't even mention protection in the event of an accident other than the "helps to manage impact energy", it's all about how comfortable it is and how well it gets rid of sweat. I'd expect that kind of wording for a jersey not a piece of safety equipment. Does this not strike you as strange?

 

[Justinslow]

we both know that's not the real reason... you're just ducking away from acknowledging the inconsistency in your logic when it comes to protecting your skull.

Not at all, as I've said, you would have to wear a helmet pretty much all the time in everyday life when one just isn't necessary. I don't make a habit of bashing my skull in everyday life but I might by falling from my bike.

 

[Profpointy]

Not at all, as I've said, you would have to wear a helmet pretty much all the time in everyday life when one just isn't necessary. I don't make a habit of bashing my skull in everyday life but I might by falling from my bike.

have you any view on why they don't seem to help on average though?

Serious question, not point scoring

 

[benb]

This thread really is on a continuous loop isn't it.........
Because obviously Australian cyclists are highly skilled and didn't really crash much in the first place?

That wouldn't explain why rates of head injuries remain the same after a significant increase in helmet wearing.

But you don't seem to understand evidence, despite lots of people having patiently explained it to you several times.
It's almost as though you don't want to understand.

 

[Justinslow]

• Patented Energy Optimized Multi-Density EPS construction helps to manage impact energy.

• Patented Aramid-Reinforced Skeleton provides internal EPS support.

Well not quite.....

 

[totallyfixed]

Coupled with the fact that I know at least two other cyclists who have impacted the road with their heads whilst wearing helmets. I'd really not like to be the one impacting the Tarmac without one.

Hit the nail on the head [so to speak], I know quite a lot of cyclists who do not wear a helmet, they do not impact roads with their heads. I would really like to know why helmeted riders make a habit of performing this strange action.

 

[Justinslow]

Try reading it that way and see if that helps at all

Very clever, no not really.

 

[Justinslow]

Hit the nail on the head [so to speak], I know quite a lot of cyclists who do not wear a helmet, they do not impact roads with their heads. I would really like to know why helmeted riders make a habit of performing this strange action.

Clearly they have no skill.

 

[Justinslow]

That wouldn't explain why rates of head injuries remain the same after a significant increase in helmet wearing.

But you don't seem to understand evidence, despite lots of people having patiently explained it to you several times.
It's almost as though you don't want to understand.

You could explain all the evidence from far flung countries you like to me, it would make no difference, I hold my anecdotal evidence in higher regard than yours and will do what I like whilst riding my bikes, you will not tell me what to wear and what to not wear.