105 goes electronic

[T4tomo]

I'm wondering whether R7000 will, over time become some sort of coveted unicorn that represents the pinnacle of mech groupsets before all the high end ones were killed off..

Surely that's Dura Ace 9100? (and also Ultegra 8000)? 105 R7000 hasn't been updated, its just continuing to be sold.......for now.

Di2 Ultegra and Di2 Dura ace still have rim brake options, I'm not sure the new 105 Di2 does which is a shame, again manufacturer led think absolutely everyone wants disc brakes on every bike.. The issue is the brifter needs 2 designs to match both rim and hydro disc brakes which is more £££ for Shimano to design both versions.

 

[DCBassman]

Gone are the days when you don't need to charge a battery to ride a bike eh..

This. No beef with the idea, just that a bike always seemed to be an ever-ready machine, not needing special prep just to ensure it actually functions.
I'm afraid I'm with @Cycleops on this one. But if ya wants it, ya wants it!

 

[fossyant]

This. No beef with the idea, just that a bike always seemed to be an ever-ready machine, not needing special prep just to ensure it actually functions.
I'm afraid I'm with @Cycleops on this one. But if ya wants it, ya wants it!

But £1,700 for 105. I don't stoop that low on my bikes, Dura Ace and Ultegra on my two road bikes.

That's a lot of wonga.

 

[jowwy]

you could probably add di2 to any bike for a lot less than 1700.......you dont need the new cranks or shifters.

Just buy the sattelite shifters and put them on the tops. I mean how many of you are sit in the drops and changing gears on a regular basis. and if you are, put another sprint button on the drops.....wil still cost less than 1700

ultegra rear mech - 200
Ultegra front mech - 150
2 sets sprint buttons - 200
Junction box - 87
Battery - 115
5 cables of various lengths - 100

Thats what 800ish - for 11 speed di2 - without changing cranks and shifters

Ultegra di2 shifters for rim or cable disc brakes are around £80 each on wiggle...if you feel the need to add them

 

[cougie uk]

But £1,700 for 105. I don't stoop that low on my bikes, Dura Ace and Ultegra on my two road bikes.

That's a lot of wonga.

105 now is much better than Ultegra of a few years back.

I'd rather have new 105 than old Ultegra.


That said I've not got electronic gears on any bike.

 

[Milkfloat]

The prices from that article seem to be wildly out. The £1700 quoted elsewhere include £1000 of carbon wheels. That makes the bits you actually need significantly cheaper. Hopefully when the supply chain is sorted we go back to paying about 50-60% of the RRP as well. I certainly will be considering the new 105 on my winter bike, no more gear cables to get gunked up.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The prices from that article seem to be wildly out. The £1700 quoted elsewhere include £1000 of carbon wheels. That makes the bits you actually need significantly cheaper. Hopefully when the supply chain is sorted we go back to paying about 50-60% of the RRP as well. I certainly will be considering the new 105 on my winter bike, no more gear cables to get gunked up.

No, I don't think so. The new wheels aren't "officially" part of 105 - according to GCN anyway. From the article linked in the OP

SHIMANO 105 R7100 DI2 PRICES
105 Di2 hydraulic disc STI shifters and flat mount caliper set front: £349.99 / US$404.99
105 Di2 hydraulic disc STI shifters and flat mount caliper set rear: £349.99 / US$404.99
105 12-speed 50/34 chainset: £169.99 / US$179.99
105 Di2 Front derailleur: £149.99 / US$152.99
105 Di2 Rear derailleur: £274.99 / US$279.99
105 12-speed cassette 11/34 and 11/36: £69.99 and £84.99 / US$65.99 and $87.99
Groupset price inc. rotors, chain, Etube wires and battery: £1,730 / $1,886.86

Edits ...

For comparison, Merlin are currently selling mechanical 105 R7000 including rim callipers for £500, RRP is £670
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105-r7000-11-speed-groupset-118524.html

And a better comparison is the R7000 disc which Merlin are selling for £700, RRP is £899
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-105-r7020-disc-groupset-119887.html

So the extra cost for a retail disc groiupset is £1,730 - £899 = £831. For that you get an extra "speed" and leccy shifting. It's slightly under twice the price of the manual version.

 

[Milkfloat]

No, I don't think so. The new wheels aren't "officially" part of 105 - according to GCN anyway. From the article linked in the OP

SHIMANO 105 R7100 DI2 PRICES
105 Di2 hydraulic disc STI shifters and flat mount caliper set front: £349.99 / US$404.99
105 Di2 hydraulic disc STI shifters and flat mount caliper set rear: £349.99 / US$404.99
105 12-speed 50/34 chainset: £169.99 / US$179.99
105 Di2 Front derailleur: £149.99 / US$152.99
105 Di2 Rear derailleur: £274.99 / US$279.99
105 12-speed cassette 11/34 and 11/36: £69.99 and £84.99 / US$65.99 and $87.99
Groupset price inc. rotors, chain, Etube wires and battery: £1,730 / $1,886.86

Ahh closer research and some maths says you are right. Road.cc included the wheels in their table.

 

[Sittingduck]

This. No beef with the idea, just that a bike always seemed to be an ever-ready machine, not needing special prep just to ensure it actually functions.
I'm afraid I'm with @Cycleops on this one. But if ya wants it, ya wants it!

You charge it for a couple of hours then literally forget about doing it again for 4-6 months. The battery lasts ages, so it's hardly a concern to ensure it is charged every ride.

 

[cougie uk]

You charge it for a couple of hours then literally forget about doing it again for 4-6 months. The battery lasts ages, so it's hardly a concern to ensure it is charged every ride.

I always ride with lights now. They need charging once a week and that's no issue.

 

[Sittingduck]

Indeed - I spend far more time charging phone / lights / Wahoo unit / Varia than ideal (probably each item at least 2x per week) Di2 not even on my charge schedule radar.

 

[steverob]

I think that's part of the problem; because you get used to charging your lights, head unit, other items at least once a week (maybe more) but only need to charge Di2 once every six months, it's the thing that's most likely to get forgotten - until it's too late of course!

Even though my bike is mainly Ultegra equipped, I'm still on mechanical shifters and rim brakes, but I'm not averse to going electric/disc the next time I buy new (that's probably a few years away yet though). Could find myself tempted by something like this if the price jump between standard 105 and electronic turned out to not be too ridiculous.

 

[wafter]

Surely that's Dura Ace 9100? (and also Ultegra 8000)? 105 R7000 hasn't been updated, its just continuing to be sold.......for now.

Di2 Ultegra and Di2 Dura ace still have rim brake options, I'm not sure the new 105 Di2 does which is a shame, again manufacturer led think absolutely everyone wants disc brakes on every bike.. The issue is the brifter needs 2 designs to match both rim and hydro disc brakes which is more £££ for Shimano to design both versions.

Yes; that's a fair point about DA and Ultegra - I was coming at it from the perspective that (correct me if I'm wrong) R7000 is the now the highest-end offering available new since the latest incarnations of both Dura Ace and Ultegra (9200 and 8100 respectively) are Di2 only. I appreciate that the R7000 remains pretty much the same generation as the groupsets you mention though.
Tbh it seems bizarre to me that they're still offering rim brakes with the electronic-only groupsets; surely it's far more of a mental leap to electronic shifting than it is to discs? Although granted braking format is heavily reliant on the frame, forks and wheels (they either takes discs or they don't) while electronic shifting is far more compatible with existing hardware. I don't think that 105 Di2 offers a rim brake option.

Having dwelled on this for a while this decision has really irritated me as 105 seemed like a bit of a watershed point where expected the onslaught of electronic shifting to stop. It's good that R7000 is still going (and fine if they wish to continue to run the two side by side to mark this crossroads in their products) however I suspect Shimano expect this perpetual drive of electronic towards the lower end of their range to continue, and that R7000 is the next one with its head on the chopping block.

Obviously what's below is constantly improving and the new Tiagra will likely remain mech, grow to 11 speeds and rival the current R7000. However, I'd long aspired to 105 ownership as a thinking individual's groupset and it disappoints me that for many including myself it will lose this reputation as a non-nonsense, great-value middle ground to be pushed into the "big-money-for-marginal-gains" territory of the two groupsets above.

I wonder if this situation echoes the gradual demise of downtube shifters at the hands of STIs all those years ago - the latter being something I love, however also something that seems to bring very tangible gains..

 

[Elybazza61]

I think that's part of the problem; because you get used to charging your lights, head unit, other items at least once a week (maybe more) but only need to charge Di2 once every six months, it's the thing that's most likely to get forgotten - until it's too late of course!

You can of course have the battery indicator set up on Garmins/Wahoos etc to tell you the battery level.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

As someone who adores Di2, I think that this is both surprising and good news.

I didn't expect it until someone like Sunrace or Microshift came out with electronic shifting and Shimano were forced to offer 105 Di2 because the big bike brands were threatening to go to them. I don't really understand how you can make a cheaper version of the electronic shifting parts so 105 Di2 would cost as much more over 105 cabled as the Ultegra Di2 does over cabled.

It does seem that the rear mech "conversion kit" for 105 is the same as the Ultegra one, the same with the lever electronics with the front mech being pretty much just an older Ultegra one. As there is not much "battery" in the "battery" there is not much room for cost savings there.

So what it is going to cost? https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bikes/shimano-105-di2-bikes/ has a number of bikes with 105 Di2 but the configuration tool slightly confuses me as different bikes and different configurations seem to have quite different prices for 105 Di2/cable upgrade. It varies between £250 and £600, but £600 seems to be the "normal/correct" price.

In fact the same bike and configuration changes price if you edit the starting spec and then go back to it, it seems that Ribble are offering a special price on the 105 Di2 introduction page.

So why are Shimano rocking the boat and possibly damaging the presumably lucrative Ultegra sales? Does Shimano now think that there is a big demand for Di2 from people who won't buy Ultegra Di2, are the big brands threatening to go to SRAM/Campag? Or is it just a natural progression, Shimano have had most of the premium price sales that they deserved for creating the product and Di2 is now just a normal product?

I get Wafter's point and recently Shimano had started to move a clear differentiator, 105 is cabled, Ultegra is Di2, now we seem to be back to what does Ultegra offer that 105 doesn't? It's great news for the customer though. For me 2x8 is the sweet spot, enough gears and low running costs, I get minimal benefit from 2x10, but only Claris supports 8 speed, generally Claris is impressive but it does have weaknesses and there is no chance of Claris Di2, is there......?

With bike prices rising, or no discounts being offered, and £2k now being a normal price for big brand bikes an extra £600 for electronic shifting doesn't sound too bad.

I looked at this https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-725-disc-green-105-di2/?childSku=BB725CRD035 £2,499 (£2,619 if you change things and then go back) for 725/CF and 105 Di2 or £1,869 if I downgrade to Tiagra.

I get why those who have tried Di2, either don't like it at all or don't like it at the price, but I still meet people who haven't tried it and are dismissive of it. Yet to me it is a bigger change than 531 to carbon fibre, if I were deciding between a generic cr-mo frame and 105 Di2 and a CF frame and 105 cabled I would go for the cr-mo Di2.

Bye

Ian