20 cm from Death - Outcome

[magnatom]

I think its being watched... a LOT.

Mags.. I've forwarded the link to a few papers news email, perhaps others here could also email various newspapers and get the gist going..? They can then choose if they have an interest and might run a general peice on cyclists not having any joy with the Police, etc.

Guys,

Can I ask that you don't forward it to any more press. I've had interest from the press and they are wanting some exclusivity (I can assure you this does not involve any money changing hands!). So to retain some impact with this, I'll keep it to this one article at the moment. If done correctly others will follow the story up.

Not a problem that you did downfader, I understand why you forwarded it, but sometimes less is more......

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

What I find astonishing is that - if it hadn't been for your persistence - no-one would have informed you of the outcome. That is almost as disgraceful as the decision not to prosecute.

Good luck with whatever course of action you choose to take.

 

[magnatom]

What I find astonishing is that - if it hadn't been for your persistence - no-one would have informed you of the outcome. That is almost as disgraceful as the decision not to prosecute.

Good luck with whatever course of action you choose to take.

Aye, I asked the PF if it was their policy to contact those who report a crime to inform them of the outcome. The answer was no.

Very poor service.

 

[ACS]

I have also added this to my FB page. Not a lot to add except my support and echo the comments made by others.

 

[downfader]

Guys,

Can I ask that you don't forward it to any more press. I've had interest from the press and they are wanting some exclusivity (I can assure you this does not involve any money changing hands!). So to retain some impact with this, I'll keep it to this one article at the moment. If done correctly others will follow the story up.

Not a problem that you did downfader, I understand why you forwarded it, but sometimes less is more......

Fair enough, good luck btw!

 

[GAVSTER]

Aye, I asked the PF if it was their policy to contact those who report a crime to inform them of the outcome. The answer was no.

Very poor service.

Mags - I think you need to be realistic. There are getting on for 400,000 reported crimes in Scotland every year. Added to that the same in offences. There are a few hundred PFs - if PF's informed every complainant then there would need to be a lot more staff.

I think that COPFS do try and inform victims of 'solemn' crimes.

Looking at your video it's difficult to argue that the HGV's driving was truly awful and certainly was dangerous ... however the PF will make a decision on if he thinks he would get a conviction - very little point pro-ing a case if it's gonna get chucked.

Now, with Scots law working on the premise that you need corroboration - the fiscal had your statement and the video to go on. Did you also have another independent witness?

My personal view is that the driver should have been prosecuted but hey I'm a cyclist and not a prosecutor.

I do know some prosecutors - and ask them what they think.

Glad that you came out of it the right way up.

Gav

 

[Peter10]

If he was interviewed and charged then the police's job is done and the CPS take it from there. In England and Wales the CPS won't take on a job unless they are near sure or conviction as they have targets (80%+ conviction rate). It's pathetic how the courts operate in this country. It's one of the main reasons the police get a bad reputation as people think it is their fault criminals are not prosecuted. The court system is a joke...

 

[thomas]

Cheadle, really, I'd prefer you not to post in cesspits like that, especially not linking to us. Thanks for the vote of confidence anyway...

LOL on that muppet about recumbents. I'm sure he rather likes Lamborghinis and many other low cars like that, and has no problem with them. I'm sure he also doesn't realise that with many low sports cars, their lights are lower than recumbent lights, and their drivers are too.

I did a track day with a mate which was arranged by Piston Heads. The people I met were all very nice...we didn't talk about cycling funnily enough, but they seemed to have the good sense to test their driving on a race track

 

[Black Sheep]

I did a track day with a mate which was arranged by Piston Heads. The people I met were all very nice...we didn't talk about cycling funnily enough, but they seemed to have the good sense to test their driving on a race track

there are many enthusiasts on piston heads who know that driving skill used and developed on a track can be used at slower speeds on the road, for example, smooth cornering and better braking practice

these same people will condemn people who try and learn it on the road and push their limits on the road, believing that it is not safe and they should save that kind of thing for the track.

there are other people on there who really shouldn't be allowed to drive.

 

[magnatom]

Mags - I think you need to be realistic. There are getting on for 400,000 reported crimes in Scotland every year. Added to that the same in offences. There are a few hundred PFs - if PF's informed every complainant then there would need to be a lot more staff.

I think that COPFS do try and inform victims of 'solemn' crimes.

Looking at your video it's difficult to argue that the HGV's driving was truly awful and certainly was dangerous ... however the PF will make a decision on if he thinks he would get a conviction - very little point pro-ing a case if it's gonna get chucked.

Now, with Scots law working on the premise that you need corroboration - the fiscal had your statement and the video to go on. Did you also have another independent witness?

My personal view is that the driver should have been prosecuted but hey I'm a cyclist and not a prosecutor.

I do know some prosecutors - and ask them what they think.

Glad that you came out of it the right way up.

Gav

Yes indeed. But how many people pass through the NHS every day, and would patients accept not hearing about their results?

I'm not suggesting that they ring every person who makes a complaint, but there needs to be a system where you can check progress simply and where you get an idea of timescales. For example how difficult would it be to send a letter to every complainant at the time of complaint to tell them the proceedure and who and where to contact if they have not heard anything in x months time?

As far as I am aware the driver when questioned said he did not see me. That in itself is an admission of guilt, as it is clear from the video that he had every chance to see me. In fact in the video that I gave police it even shows me putting my bright yellow jacket on at the start of the commute and switiching on my B&M Ixon IQ and Hope 1 front lights!

If you could get some unofficial comments from prosecutors then that would be very interesting.

 

[Jezston]

Mags - I think you need to be realistic. There are getting on for 400,000 reported crimes in Scotland every year. Added to that the same in offences. There are a few hundred PFs - if PF's informed every complainant then there would need to be a lot more staff.

I dunno, I live in the east Midlands and after reporting a taxi driver for bullying me out of the way before getting out of his car and threatening me - to be honest a very minor incident compared to mags - I had an officer visit the next day, and a call a few weeks later letting me know what happened and asking me for feedback on how I felt it was handled. Nottingham isn't exactly what you'd call a low crime rate area either. I don't think it's too much to ask any police force to let people know how their cases are being handled.

 

[magnatom]

I dunno, I live in the east Midlands and after reporting a taxi driver for bullying me out of the way before getting out of his car and threatening me - to be honest a very minor incident compared to mags - I had an officer visit the next day, and a call a few weeks later letting me know what happened and asking me for feedback on how I felt it was handled. Nottingham isn't exactly what you'd call a low crime rate area either. I don't think it's too much to ask any police force to let people know how their cases are being handled.

Ah Jezston, don't get mixed up between the police and the CPS(PF). The police, after a few false starts, were happy to proceed with the charges, my problem is with the PF.

 

[GAVSTER]

Ah Jezston, don't get mixed up between the police and the CPS(PF). The police, after a few false starts, were happy to proceed with the charges, my problem is with the PF.

Indeed Mags - the police did what you would expect - they examined the case and decided that a report to the PF was the right course of action.

In terms of informing people of prosecution decisions I would again say that if every single complaint got updates the PF's would need a lot more legal staff. Just dealing with the solemn cases is huge.

Anyway - I have spoken to two PFs on the QT.

The problem is that under Scots law your video and your witness statement could be argued as coming from the same source therefore there was no independent corroboration.

The case may have been no-pro-ed because it would have most likely failed in court.

I think there should be a change to the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act that would allow video evidence that was obtained by an individual to be seen as independent corroboration. Obviously they would have to be unedited rushes.

When you get a response from your PF - if he says that it was not proceeded with because of lack of corroboration - then you should consider speaking to your MSP.

 

[Ravenbait]

FWIW, I'm not a lawyer etc etc etc.
As someone who has appeared as a witness in a professional capacity, I can confirm that as Scots law stands, what is important is the witness statement. You speak to what you saw. I've been involved in cases where photographs were submitted as evidence, but we had to speak to the evidence, and every single photo had to be taken AND witnessed. I would imagine that the PF decided not to proceed in this case because the only evidence was the video and the witness statement -- there was a lack of independent corroboration. The reason for this is, as I understand it, is there needs to be a witness speaking to the fact that the digital/documentary evidence accurately reflects what was there at the time. Both the evidence taker and the witness have to sign a statement to the effect that the documentary evidence is a true representation of what was there and has not been tampered with in any way.

Sam

 

[magnatom]

Thanks guys. That is very interesting. Is this similar in English law? I know of at least one case where video evidence was used to convict.

If this is indeed the case then, yes I will be in touch with my MSP and MP (I'm sure they would help at least). I also personally know an MSP from my uni days (and another prospective candidate), so I will certainly take it up with them.

Anyway, I will wait and see what the PF says.