200miles in a day - Training/nutrition advice needed

[Linford]

As you are making claims,the burden of proof is entirely on you. Please provide link to actual studie/s.

You have the study's now for both lab rat and humans. I await your response with eager anticipation.
do you refute the findings, and if so why ?

 

[e-rider]

200 miles will be tough. I've done countless 100s but from 100-120 my body falls apart (and usually not my legs). Back, neck, shoulders, arms all begin to suffer. Of course, at some point the legs will go too. Good luck.

As a side note, my training rides never exceed 75 miles which probably explains why I get problems at 110 miles! If you want to do 200 miles then train up to 140 at least.

 

[Rob3rt]

I managed 150 mile with an average over 17 mph and could have carried on, this was on the back of only ever exceeding 100 mile once, it wasn't even that difficult tbh. Yeah my back and shoulders ached a bit, but not too bad, I certainly wasn't the mess those old audaxers hinted I would be! I think if you just get out and make sure you are putting in consistent mileage you will be fine. If you suffer a bit toward the end, well so be it, that is part of the challenge, you only need to finish, it's not a race so don't over think it. Keep eating and drinking and just keep those pedals turning.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

http://kickincarbclutter.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/fructose-induced-leptin-resistance.html

Where to start with this one?

Study took place on rats which we are not.
Study was based on 60.4% fructose diet - If the study happened to be on a human, would it still be 60.4%?

The study is significant because it shows Leptin Resistance to be at the heart of the current Obesity Epidemic, possibly driven by a high fructose intake then coupled with an excess intake of calories/fat, and that Insulin Resistance does not cause obesity.

A possibility eh. You and they appear to have forgot that rats eating fat which has 9cals per gram were eating more and then eating more calories per gram. (4 per g carbohydrate/ 9 per g fat) Little wonder they put on weight, it's almost as if the study was designed to give that result.

So is eating fruit still the cause of all obesity Linford? There are no other factors than fruit/fructose and leptin? Nobody ever eats too much, it's all down to fruit?

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/6/2963.short

Because insulin and leptin, and possibly ghrelin, function as key signals to the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy balance, decreases of circulating insulin and leptin and increased ghrelin concentrations, as demonstrated in this study, could lead to increased caloric intake and ultimately contribute to weight gain and obesity during chronic consumption of diets high in fructose.

chron·ic [kron-ik] Show IPA
adjective
1.
constant; habitual; inveterate: a chronic liar.
2.
continuing a long time or recurring frequently: a chronic state of civil war.
3.
having long had a disease, habit, weakness, or the like: a chronic invalid.
4.
(of a disease) having long duration ( opposed to acute

Oh so you could eat more and gain weight?



and then have a quick look at the post you quoted originally

You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.

The OP is discussing riding 200miles. When the chances are great,that on a 1day 200mile ride, his body will be as good as depleted, at what point will obesity creep up on him? He's not exactly drinking gallons or eating tonnes of the stuff in front of the tv is he?


Like I said last night, I was eating an apple. Lovely it was too. I'm not obese this morning.

ps: Neither of your studies show weight gain in humans.

 

[Linford]

Where to start with this one?

Study took place on rats which we are not.
Study was based on 60.4% fructose diet - If the study happened to be on a human, would it still be 60.4%?


A possibility eh

So is eating fruit the cause of all obesity Linford? There are no other factors than fruit/fructose and leptin? Nobody ever eats too much, it's all down to fruit?








Oh so you could eat more and gain weight?



and then have a quick look at the post you quoted originally

The OP is discussing riding 200miles. When the chances are great,that on a 1day 200mile ride, his body will be as good as depleted, at what point will obesity creep up on him? He's not exactly drinking gallons or eating tonnes of the stuff in front of the tv is he?


Like I said last night, I was eating an apple. Lovely it was too. I'm not obese this morning.

ps: Neither of your studies show weight gain in humans.

You look but you don't see...I hope you don't do this sort of thing for a living.

What the study's show is that Leptin resistance increases appetite, and leptin resistance is caused by consuming fructose.....or in other words if you have a high fructose diet, then you will struggle to satiate your appetite.

You asked me to supply the studies, and I have done that. I've established a link between the two in this thread and all you are doing is trying to save face with bluff and bluster.

If you disagree with the findings, then you ought to do a study of you own to disprove them.

In the mean time, you bring nothing more of value to the table so you ought to just leave it at that!

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

What the study's show is that Leptin resistance increases appetite, and leptin resistance is caused by consuming fructose.....or in other words if you have a high fructose diet, then you will struggle to satiate your appetite.

And who has a high fructose diet to the tune of 60.4%? The type of sugar is pretty irrelevant actually, any form of over-eating (ie:blood sugar induced snacking) is going to end up on your waistline, and all but the lowest GI foodstuffs do it eventually.

Don't you recognize your own admission that you now consume oats and potatoes (ps: sweet potato is generally lower GI.) which would dramatically alter your blood sugar levels? Ironically the average GI of an apple is as good as half that of a potato,but in a balanced diet, you aren't going to triple in size overnight by eating one.

You asked me to supply the studies, and I have done that. I've established a link between the two in this thread and all you are doing is trying to save face with bluff and bluster.

Yes you did. Neither of them showed anything that backed up your original point which was.

Fructose is really the devils work as it stimulates leptin production, and that tells the body to turn carbs in the system into fat

"fruit makes you fat"

In the mean time, you bring nothing more of value to the table so you ought to just leave it at that!

Your own contributions haven't exactly been worthy of award or applause. Perhaps you should read the thread in the context it began,which was a guy planning a 200mile/1day ride and being advised to mix up his carb sources during.

Do you really think that multi-source carbs on a long ride will lead to the OP returning obese/at the very least be in any way detrimental?

 

[Shaun]

For clarity - I've suspended two members access to this thread for 3 days for continuing an argument that offered nothing of value to the OP.

Point scoring, demanding "evidence", rubbishing "evidence", and generally posting tit-for-tat engagements to prove one's rightness outside of the main topic of discussion (or advice sought) derails the thread and overshadows useful replies.

If you believe that information or advice someone has posted is incorrect or needs further (or evidenced) clarification then please feel free to say so - but don't repeatedly and continually pick at the responses to the detriment of everyone else in the thread; take it to PM for further clarification if it's that important to you - otherwise credit readers with the ability to work out things for themselves and take whatever advice they feel is most useful to them!

Thanks,
Shaun

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

Having done a 227 miler last year one of the main things I think you need to think of is the mind games. Nutrition was fine, I had done 1500 miles training but never more than 80 in one day, but what it came down to was the little "this is hard" "no it isn't" conversations I had with myself en route.

 

[Ningishzidda]

There's another chap on another thread who want's to ride the C2C ( 150 miles ) in 10 hours inc stops.
My advice to him was to build his FTP to minimum 275 to stand a chance of completing. The training involved in this task alone will be enough to see him across the country in ten hours.

For endurance exercise, it is fundamentally essential to improve ones VO2 uptake. Once you increase this, your FTP will rise. When exercising at a lesser Wattage, a smaller percentage of your VO2 uptake max is required if your VO2 max is enormous, and hence the type of energy system you will be using.
For a frail cyclist with a 180 FTP, consistently exercising at 120 Watts will be a bigger chore than if his FTP was 240. The frail cyclist will enter Lactic more often than the more powerful cyclist, and the more powerful cyclist will be using lipolysis more often than glycolysis.

To the OP on this thread, my advice is similar.
In addition, don't forget the muscles that hold your head up when you are in the cycling position. HOURS, not miles will sort this.
Don't forget to replenish lost salts.

 

[Ningishzidda]

Having done a 227 miler last year one of the main things I think you need to think of is the mind games. Nutrition was fine, I had done 1500 miles training but never more than 80 in one day, but what it came down to was the little "this is hard" "no it isn't" conversations I had with myself en route.

I invent an imaginary cyclist and explain to her WHY I'm doing such a stupid thing.

 

[black'n'yellow]

In addition, don't forget the muscles that hold your head up when you are in the cycling position. .

would these be the same ones that hold your head up when you're not in a cycling position..?

 

[Ningishzidda]

Ask a physiotherapist.

Another anecdote. "It is easier for a 25 minute ten mile timetrialist to do a 300 km Randonnee than a 300 km Randonneur to do a 25 minute 10 mile time trial."

 

[black'n'yellow]

Ask a physiotherapist.

no need

Another anecdote. "It is easier for a 25 minute ten mile timetrialist to do a 300 km Randonnee than a 300 km Randonneur to do a 25 minute 10 mile time trial."

slightly misleading - to the point where it pretty much fails as a useful anecdote. Assuming it was meant to be useful...

 

[Ningishzidda]

no need



slightly misleading - to the point where it pretty much fails as a useful anecdote. Assuming it was meant to be useful...

I don't wish to be suspended, but if you want to argue the meaning of the word 'anecdote', be my guest.
Maybe I should have started the post "A fable" or "Something to consider which may or may not be true."

 

[black'n'yellow]

I don't wish to be suspended, but if you want to argue the meaning of the word 'anecdote', be my guest.

don't worry - there are no rules on here about posting inaccurate info. Unfortunately, there do seem to be a few ad-hoc rules which prevent me arguing against it...so I'll leave it