200miles in a day - Training/nutrition advice needed

[Mushroomgodmat]

200 miles in a day! - the aim is 12 hours.

I cycle around 400 miles a month, I typically cycle 50miles on clubs runs on the weekend, the furthest Iv cycled is 95miles in one (more or less) sitting - I have about 2 months to train, I plan on doing atleast 100 miles each weekend up till then.

I'm not really fit, I find around the 70-80mile make things start to give out - I think overall my body starts to shut down. I think part (maybe all) of the problem is nutrition on rides. 50 miles is a walk in the park for me with a banana and a drink, but as soon as I get to around 70-80 miles i think my body starts to bonk. That said...Iv never actually bonked, but its a feeling of everything (arms, legs mostly) just loosing energy, and loosing energy fast.

So my question is not so much about having the strength to cycle 200miles, but what nutrition plan is a good one on rides like this?

Up till now my standard plan is Porridge (with suger) in the morning, banana every 20-30 miles, and occupationally a cerial/mule bar. And drinks - normally a bit of light orange squash with 1-2 electrolite tablets in the bottle for good measure.

 

[black'n'yellow]

200 miles in 12 hours requires an average speed of 16.6mph.. What sort of times are you doing for your 50s or 80s at the moment? And do you plan on riding solo, or in a group?

 

[Arsen Gere]

If you are used to riding 50 miles and get tired at 70-80 that is quite normal. I find that too. But by progressively increasing distance I get up to about 130 miles in around 8 hours at age 52. I think it is more a question of getting out and getting the distances increased and getting used to it. You will need to get your body to adapt to burning fat as you can't consume enough calories from any type of food. You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.

 

[Mushroomgodmat]

200 miles in 12 hours requires an average speed of 16.6mph.. What sort of times are you doing for your 50s or 80s at the moment? And do you plan on riding solo, or in a group?

yeah, thats the daunting part (one of many) Iv cycled 50 miles in a group at an average speed of 18mph, but over 200 miles it becomes a very different proposal! But yes, it would be a group of about 20 cyclists. And although the plan is 12 hours, I wouldn't be surprised if it became 14-15ish hours.

If you are used to riding 50 miles and get tired at 70-80 that is quite normal. I find that too. But by progressively increasing distance I get up to about 130 miles in around 8 hours at age 52. I think it is more a question of getting out and getting the distances increased and getting used to it. You will need to get your body to adapt to burning fat as you can't consume enough calories from any type of food. You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.

this is where my know how fails me...the machanics of nutrition/pacing myself if what im worried about.

 

[Arsen Gere]

this is where my know how fails me...the machanics of nutrition/pacing myself if what im worried about.

It's not that complicated really. It is about getting out there and building the miles. You will get used to 70-80 and then 90-100 feels tough, once you conquer that you're off to 120. If you can do 120+ getting to 200 is just about time in the saddle really.
During that process you can test different foods that work for you. An easyish 100 I just eat jam and bread and bananas with a weak carb based drink and isotonic (high 5 zero's ) in it. When it comes to racing that kind of distance I use a single bottle with gels in it and some kind of high carb bar, then a water/electrolyte drink separate. The trick is not to consume too much carbs in one go other wise you feel sick. You need to get your stomach to empty and water with a salt or electrolyte additive will help. If you feel like your stomach is sloshing around it is probably trying to get the consistency right before it empties to the small intestines. If you add more carbs it gets worse, water/electrolyte will help it empty. Juding this is best done on the road. Working on 60-90g/hour of mixed carbs is about right. In training though I try to work with very few carbs. This promotes the use of body fats. Before races 'A' races I try to bonk a couple of weeks before the race. The most I do in training is about 130-140 miles and I do that on normal foods. No commercial gels etc.

 

[Linford]

If you are used to riding 50 miles and get tired at 70-80 that is quite normal. I find that too. But by progressively increasing distance I get up to about 130 miles in around 8 hours at age 52. I think it is more a question of getting out and getting the distances increased and getting used to it. You will need to get your body to adapt to burning fat as you can't consume enough calories from any type of food. You typically hold 75,000 calories in fat and 3,000 in glycogen. You will need to burn around 8-10,000 calories over that distance and you can only consume about 30-50% of that. Ideally from mixed carb types, sucrose, glucose, fructose as the rate of absorbtion is higher from multiple carb types - 90g/hour instead of 60g from any single carb.

I have been reading a very interesting article on carbs, and fat...It is aimed at diabetics, but lessons can be applied to all, and as I see it possibly this..HERE as well as the associated articles.


From my understanding of it, Fructose is really the devils work as it stimulates leptin production, and that tells the body to turn carbs in the system into fat - which ties them up and means that there will be less to consume (which then means that you are entirely dependent on the glycogen in your liver)

Fructose as part of the diet was only available in the autumn, and the body evolved to lay down fat at that time to get them through the lean winter months.

I've cut all fructose and wheat products out of my diet, and substituted for spuds and oats (slow release as well as green veg) and my sugar control is much better for it now.

 

[Arsen Gere]

I have been reading a very interesting article on carbs, and fat...It is aimed at diabetics, but lessons can be applied to all, and as I see it possibly this..HERE as well as the associated articles.
... .

Fructose by-passes the insulin response system. But like most things in moderation it does no harm, ie eat fruit, drink fruit juice. When doing any kind of extreme sport it's going to get used fairly quickly and won't have a long term effect. If it is consumed after exercise it looks like it delays clearing out lacates.

In your case cutting it out may be appropriate. But there is no way you'd get me carrying a sack of tatties on a bike ride

 

[Linford]

Fructose by-passes the insulin response system. But like most things in moderation it does no harm, ie eat fruit, drink fruit juice. When doing any kind of extreme sport it's going to get used fairly quickly and won't have a long term effect. If it is consumed after exercise it looks like it delays clearing out lacates.

In your case cutting it out may be appropriate. But there is no way you'd get me carrying a sack of tatties on a bike ride

They might slow you down

 

[lulubel]

Fructose as part of the diet was only available in the autumn, and the body evolved to lay down fat at that time to get them through the lean winter months.

Why was fructose only available in the autumn?

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I have been reading a very interesting article on carbs, and fat...It is aimed at diabetics, but lessons can be applied to all, and as I see it possibly this..HERE as well as the associated articles.


From my understanding of it, Fructose is really the devils work as it stimulates leptin production, and that tells the body to turn carbs in the system into fat - which ties them up and means that there will be less to consume (which then means that you are entirely dependent on the glycogen in your liver)

Fructose as part of the diet was only available in the autumn, and the body evolved to lay down fat at that time to get them through the lean winter months.

I've cut all fructose and wheat products out of my diet, and substituted for spuds and oats (slow release as well as green veg) and my sugar control is much better for it now.

It's very hard to take anything he says as gospel when http://products.mercola.com/

Is full of supplements you can pay him for

 

[Linford]

Why was fructose only available in the autumn?

In its natural state, it is by and large when the fruit ripens

 

[Linford]

It's very hard to take anything he says as gospel when http://products.mercola.com/

Is full of supplements you can pay him for

The core advice is sound whatever else he is hawking.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

The core advice is sound whatever else he is hawking.

It's really not.

 

[Linford]

It's really not.

I read it as swap out high GI foods, and substitute for low GI foods. What you lose in eating fruit, you can make up for in green veg.
My blood sugars have been running between 12 to 15 for the last month and have been hungry all the time with false hypo's, High sugars are causing other health issues as well, but since swapping over and following his guide and they are running below 10, and not hungry at all and have got plenty of energy which is where they should be.

What's not to like about that ?

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I read it as swap out high GI foods, and substitute for low GI foods. What you lose in eating fruit, you can make up for in green veg.
My blood sugars have been running between 12 to 15 for the last month and have been hungry all the time with false hypo's, High sugars are causing other health issues as well, but since swapping over and following his guide and they are running below 10, and not hungry at all and have got plenty of energy which is where they should be.

What's not to like about that ?

Great. Anecdote