2015 Rugby World Cup **Potential spoilers**

[GrumpyGregry]

Boo to Scotland beating Japan. I mean they don't normally win, so it was a bit unexpected.

I detest the men of the north. But the other home nations don't benefit from an impoverished Scotland. They've been long overdue a decent performance and long may it continue.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The laws (especially around feeding at the scrum) need to be enforced better though.

Why enforce if the oppo aren't contesting?

In my reffing days, which I hope may restart at some point this season, as an ex-forward, I worked on the assumption that all scrums were contests until I said we were playing uncontested scrums. But at the elite level that assumption does not hold true.

 

[Kestevan]

Why enforce if the oppo aren't contesting?

In my reffing days, which I hope may restart at some point this season, as an ex-forward, I worked on the assumption that all scrums were contests until I said we were playing uncontested scrums. But at the elite level that assumption does not hold true.

I suspect that if the laws were properly enforced, the put in was straight, and the hookers forced to do their "old fashioned" job and had to "hook" the ball then scrums would become much more of a contest again.

 

[nickyboy]

There's the challenge. Elite (pro-level) RU has little to do with community (amateur) RU. Showbiz rugby, like RWC, is just that, a spectacle for the entertainment of millions of TV viewers and a few tens of thousands lucky enough to get tickets.

Properly refereed community scrums and line-outs are genuine contests but in showbiz? Just a restart (though England's stats suggest not always a 100% guaranteed outcome restart.) for sure. Chicken and egg though, did refs allow crook feed as no one contested anymore or did no one contest because of crook feed?

RL has always been a better spectator sport than RU imo. Even the best games of RU benefit from fast-forwarding through the tedious stoppages.

I'd downgrade a lot of technical peno's, ones that don't endanger player safety, to free kicks, and I'd introduce mandatory YC's for any players committing a penalty offence in a notional red zone, perhaps the 22, and in tandem I'd reduce penalties awarded in the 22 red zone to two points not three. I think the balance needs to shift away from rewarding the non-offending side with 3 points on a plate to penalising, more heavily, and in a way that creates space, the offenders.

@GrumpyGregry for (RU) President, that's what I say

One does wonder if there may come a time when the laws for professional RU differ from amateur. For now, the stadia are full and the TV rights are well sold so no reason to change much but I'd love to see a more radical approach to the game taken

 

[Lullabelle]

...but I bet you wish you'd seen the Japanese beat the South Africans. That was quite a game by all accounts.

I didn't bother watching it because I genuinely thought Japan would be slaughtered on the pitch, glad I was proved wrong but wish I had watched it.

 

[John the Monkey]

I didn't bother watching it because I genuinely thought Japan would be slaughtered on the pitch, glad I was proved wrong but wish I had watched it.

I thought similar, but luckily, came back in for the last 20 mins or so.

Anyroad, I don't think much of the theme tune inserts in those post ad break stings, although the thoughtful Orang listening to the various anthems is ok.

 

[Beebo]

Namibia just scored a try against the all blacks.
They are doing ok,

 

[Wafer]

In context of previous run ins with top tier nations apparently that was a big improvement!

 

[swee'pea99]

Have to say, I've been watching rugby (on telly admittedly) all my life, and unlike football, where I fail to understand maybe one ref's decision in 30 or 40, in rugby it's more like one in 3 or 4. I also find some of the rules - in the way they are sometimes applied - baffling. People getting penalised for failing to release, when they're pinned down under eight or nine bodies, or for failing to retreat ten metres, when the opposition has taken a quick tap penalty before they've had even a chance to get back. Doesn't stop me enjoying it, but I can't think of any other sport where I'm nonplussed by referees' decisions so often.

 

[Stephenite]

Same here @swee'pea99. Really enjoy watching RU. I only watch the international games though tbh. I used to like watching RL, but from what I've seen of it post-Murdoch it's become over-simplified and quite samey.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Did I mention that I had a ticket for the game at the AMEX last Saturday?

You did. And I salute you!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

@GrumpyGregry for (RU) President, that's what I say

One does wonder if there may come a time when the laws for professional RU differ from amateur. For now, the stadia are full and the TV rights are well sold so no reason to change much but I'd love to see a more radical approach to the game taken

In France it has already happened. As I understand it the community game plays a variation of full laws based on the U18's Laws, e.g. scrums are contested but on 45 degree rotation and only 1m of forward/backward movement basis. It was always fairly commonplace there iirc for the skips to agree that all penalties in rangewill be run or kicked to touch not kicked at goal.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Have to say, I've been watching rugby (on telly admittedly) all my life, and unlike football, where I fail to understand maybe one ref's decision in 30 or 40, in rugby it's more like one in 3 or 4. I also find some of the rules - in the way they are sometimes applied - baffling. People getting penalised for failing to release, when they're pinned down under eight or nine bodies, or for failing to retreat ten metres, when the opposition has taken a quick tap penalty before they've had even a chance to get back. Doesn't stop me enjoying it, but I can't think of any other sport where I'm nonplussed by referees' decisions so often.

Can I help? Probably not. Tee Hee.

At elite (TV) level (almost) nothing the players do happen by accident.
When you tackle a player, the instant you bring him to ground you have to release him. The instant. And get to your feet, where you can contest for the ball. Or roll away.
When you are tackled, the instant you go to ground you have to release the ball. The instant. And then try to get to your feet, where you can contest for the ball.

Two very common tackle zone penalties are

The tackler not releasing the tackled player or releasing but not rolling away. Why? To slow the ball down.
The tackled player not releasing the ball. Why? To slow the ball down and stop an opponent on his feet from running off with it.

These guys are trained athletes and have no problem doing what is required of them before they get buried in a big pile up - if they want to do it. If they don't do it there is a reason - slow the ball down.

But here's the thing. The TV commentators aren't referees. Neither is the man in charge of the telly graphics. The pundits are too busy yackking to either listen to the ref or watch his signals so the vast majority of the time what you hear, or see, on the telly as the reason for the ping is complete garbage. Reflink is a wonderful invention (Dunno if ITV are offering reflink as a sound option in RWC 2015), as, at the match you can listen to what the ref says not what Stuart Barnes or Jiffy says.

Retreating 10 metres. Only an idiot nobber of a ref (and yeah, I've had my moments) penalises a oppo who is within 10m merely for their being there. Cos that ain't illegal. No what you see is an oppo within 10m making very little attempt to run, the Laws (see below) explicitly say run, not amble with hands on hips panting, towards his own deadball line, and then chummy, having moved 1m, decides to get involved in thee game, typically by tackling, accidentally colliding with, or otherwise getting in the way of, the ball carrier. Anyone doing that deserves to get pinged.

21.7 What the opposing team must do at a penalty kick
(a) Must run from the mark. The opposing team must immediately run towards their own goal line until they are at least 10 metres away from the mark for the penalty kick, or until they have reached their goal line if that is nearer the mark.
(b) Must keep running. Even if the penalty kick is taken and the kicker’s team is playing the ball, opposing players must keep running until they have retired the necessary distance. They must not take part in the game until they have done so.
(c) Kick taken quickly. If the penalty kick is taken so quickly that opponents have no opportunity to retire, they will not be penalised for this. However, they must continue to retire as described in 21.7(b) above or until a team-mate who was 10 metres from the mark has run in front of them, before they take part in the game.

Hope this helps....

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I suspect that if the laws were properly enforced, the put in was straight, and the hookers forced to do their "old fashioned" job and had to "hook" the ball then scrums would become much more of a contest again.

As do I. But elite level hookers are on record as saying that isn't the case, and has not been for some time.

On the oppo's put in they are coached to make no attempt to strike, prioritising driving, or resisting a drive, over striking and being able to make a quick clean getaway to defend the post-scrum attack, over winning a ball that their backs, who will be in flat defensive formation, are not lined up to exploit anyway.

And that got coached well before squint feeds became the norm.

 

[martint235]

As do I. But elite level hookers are on record as saying that isn't the case, and has not been for some time.

On the oppo's put in they are coached to make no attempt to strike, prioritising driving, or resisting a drive, over striking and being able to make a quick clean getaway to defend the post-scrum attack, over winning a ball that their backs, who will be in flat defensive formation, are not lined up to exploit anyway.

And that got coached well before squint feeds became the norm.

It could be perception but from watching the RWC, the lower tier (Uruguay, Namibia etc) seem to have a much straighter put in that arrives in front of the hooker rather than into the second row