30 mile round trip doable in these short days?

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ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
For those of you wondering about the low average speed question...

I realised something unexpected a while back - if you ride slowly for half of the total distance of a ride, the maximum average speed that you can achieve is double the average speed of the slow half. It doesn't matter if you ride up a mountain at 2 mph and descend the same road at 60 mph, the average speed would be just under 4 mph! If the slow part were one third of the distance, the maximum average speed would be three times the slow part, just under 6 mph.

If you don't believe me, do the calculations yourself!

So that probably explains the 5 mph average. A long slow grovel up some steep stuff completely trashes the average speed.

I use km. My rides are often very hilly. If I do a ride with lots of really steep climbs (say, 25-30% of the total distance), I only do about 6-7 kmph going up them. My average speed for those rides usually comes in at about 20 kmph.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
For those of you wondering about the low average speed question...

I realised something unexpected a while back - if you ride slowly for half of the total distance of a ride, the maximum average speed that you can achieve is double the average speed of the slow half. It doesn't matter if you ride up a mountain at 2 mph and descend the same road at 60 mph, the average speed would be just under 4 mph! If the slow part were one third of the distance, the maximum average speed would be three times the slow part, just under 6 mph.

If you don't believe me, do the calculations yourself!

So that probably explains the 5 mph average. A long slow grovel up some steep stuff completely trashes the average speed.

I use km. My rides are often very hilly. If I do a ride with lots of really steep climbs (say, 25-30% of the total distance), I only do about 6-7 kmph going up them. My average speed for those rides usually comes in at about 20 kmph.

While that is very true, it will be rare that 2.5mph uphills will make up anywhere near half the ride distance. 2.5mph is slow enough that many of us would be falling off at that speed, and we certainly couldn't keep on going up a hill that reduced us to that for more than a very few minutes.

And 6-7kph is still around 4-4.5mph.
 

Fastpedaller

Über Member
Location
Norfolk
For those of you wondering about the low average speed question...

I realised something unexpected a while back - if you ride slowly for half of the total distance of a ride, the maximum average speed that you can achieve is double the average speed of the slow half. It doesn't matter if you ride up a mountain at 2 mph and descend the same road at 60 mph, the average speed would be just under 4 mph! If the slow part were one third of the distance, the maximum average speed would be three times the slow part, just under 6 mph.

If you don't believe me, do the calculations yourself!

So that probably explains the 5 mph average. A long slow grovel up some steep stuff completely trashes the average speed.

I use km. My rides are often very hilly. If I do a ride with lots of really steep climbs (say, 25-30% of the total distance), I only do about 6-7 kmph going up them. My average speed for those rides usually comes in at about 20 kmph.

The above doesn't hold true, but is probably a good approximation for most cycling.
It reminds me of the old 'trick question' wich goes something like this.......
You are driving a car for a 2 mile journey and cover the first mile at a steady 30 MPH, what speed do you need to maintain for the next part of the journey to make the complete journey average 60MPH?
Answers on a postcard!
 

PaulSB

Squire
You might like the various touring videos on you tube. Debs and Tom are good. Late middle aged couple who thought life was too short, sold up and started touring the world. Inspiring and makes you want to do similar. The UK is spectacular and people are mostly kind despite what you read or hear on the news. One man on his bike by Mike Carter is an excellent book as well.
I found this inspirational. The writing allowed me to almost do the ride with him.

Should the opportunity ever arise I would do the same in a shot. I have a plan as to how I could do it in stages. Four or five days riding then catch the train home. Then train back to the last point and restart.
 

presta

Legendary Member
The above doesn't hold true, but is probably a good approximation for most cycling.
It reminds me of the old 'trick question' wich goes something like this.......
You are driving a car for a 2 mile journey and cover the first mile at a steady 30 MPH, what speed do you need to maintain for the next part of the journey to make the complete journey average 60MPH?
Answers on a postcard!

Infinity, obviously.

You're trying to contradict CJ using his own argument.
 
Have you checked the calibration of your computer? I'm not a fast cyclist but in the past on tour with camping gear on upright (2-wheels) on hills I get off and push when I'm down to 7 mph as I find balance becomes challenging.

Check wheel size set on computer is correct (some computers have built-in sizes to select but measuring is easy. If you have a smartphone loads of apps to record (start on departing for a ride, end on arriving and get an average speed; no need for bar mounts, etc).

Of course everybody is different. But without long stops 5 mph is worth checking.
 

Jameshow

Guru
The above doesn't hold true, but is probably a good approximation for most cycling.
It reminds me of the old 'trick question' wich goes something like this.......
You are driving a car for a 2 mile journey and cover the first mile at a steady 30 MPH, what speed do you need to maintain for the next part of the journey to make the complete journey average 60MPH?
Answers on a postcard!

Thanks for that.... Nice trick question for my men's shed this morning!!
 

Punkawallah

Veteran
Not sure what advantage that serves? I have a route which I know the general distance going by the map and places I already travelled so miles is the useful metric here.

You talked about ‘30 miles there and back’, which gives the impression you ride from A to B then retrace your steps (wheels?).
 
OP
OP
B
More than doable. You’ll be able to ride that entirely in daylight. Put some lights on the bike, just in case anyway.

I think I have to get a feel for eating while cycling because hitting the wall after 2 hours with no food is what I mentally envision from most of my previous rides.
Would I b

Why not make overnight oats, take them with you on the bike in a small tupperware, remember a spoon lol
Or, maybe easier, take a couple of flapjacks with you.
From your username it seems I should be taking your advice given my average speed, lol.

I could take any other manner of food I wanted but the whole point is dried oats can just be tossed in via gravity whereas the overnight ones couldn't hence your note to take a spoon!

The whole point of dried oats is they are easy and no sugar like flapjacks. Yea I know you can make your own oat biscuits or whatnot but not as easy as dried oats! Prep is a nuisance. It is about grabbing something 'off the shelf'. I only like cooking one pots for the same reason. Don't want to muck around with having to tend to a meal, just chuck it in and come back in a while and it is ready.
With regards weather, unless all the major forecast sites are showing heavy rain all day then I will go out. One thing I have noticed the last few years, light showers no longer exist in the UK! Light rain as forecast by BBC/Met Office invariably tends to be far heavier than suggested.

If the forecast is lower than 5 degrees I also tend to avoid it just because it will usually be a few degrees colder than that and the risk of ice, particularly in the morning is too high for me.
First time I hear about that. There are all manner of rain variations still for me. Rain is the most consistent and varied weather this time of year! It is the sun which is a rarity right now.
Not knowing what you are riding or fitness etc I would say 5mph average is incredibly slow. Like ridiculously so.
Close to Olympic level. 😏
What bike are you riding and what is your feet climbed per mile on average?
I said several times, don't put too much stock in the 5mph. It is based on a 40 min ride which was mostly hills and it seems @collinj has gone some way to explaining it. I don't understand the science/maths but sounded impressive. :smile:
A rough rule of thumb I use (and I believe quite a few others similar) is 0-300ft per 10 miles is really flat. 500ft/10 miles pretty flat.
1000ft/10miles is a hilly ride.

Anyway, as others have said 30miles even on the shortest day "should" be easily achievable. Caveat is bike/terrain/fitness/whatever.

As for doing rides like that this time of year, absolutely. I rode 32miles yesterday, 2700ft climbing. Several of sections were 10-15%, pretty regular ride I do.
As above too many other variables to say yet. I am waiting for a not too nasty day and will get out again. Friday looking decent here. Another heavy rain day today last time I checked.
Hmm quote got snipped but thanks for the explanation. Sounds like the ride I did to get that one single data point. All hills at 2-3mph average when I was looking and when I came back down again was something like 10-15mph.
While that is very true, it will be rare that 2.5mph uphills will make up anywhere near half the ride distance. 2.5mph is slow enough that many of us would be falling off at that speed, and we certainly couldn't keep on going up a hill that reduced us to that for more than a very few minutes.

And 6-7kph is still around 4-4.5mph.
As I noted, it was a short ride with hills right out from where I started. I climbed and climbed then came down back to base again. I am about half way up a valley starting at 14% then it goes on like that for about 1/2 mile the a bit level then a slight down then went up a short steep ramp I read at 17% then slower incline then sharper again then gentler and then coasted back down. That is the general gist with 3.8 miles reading the distance when I got back.

Anyway, let us see what my average comes out at when I do a 'proper' ride. Besides the 30 mile goal I am also interested in finding that out now.
 
OP
OP
B
You talked about ‘30 miles there and back’, which gives the impression you ride from A to B then retrace your steps (wheels?).

I don't know what impression it gave I just had a route I have had in mind for some time which I knew what it was roughly for one way and just doubled it! :smile:

Anyway this thread has got me motivated to get out again so mission accomplished. :becool:
 
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Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
The above doesn't hold true, but is probably a good approximation for most cycling.
It reminds me of the old 'trick question' wich goes something like this.......
You are driving a car for a 2 mile journey and cover the first mile at a steady 30 MPH, what speed do you need to maintain for the next part of the journey to make the complete journey average 60MPH?
Answers on a postcard!

The maximum average you can achieve is less than 60 mph. Less than twice the average in first half. What @ColinJ said still holds. You’ve tripped over your own feet.
 

Binky

Über Member
OP, it might help if you answered questions if you want advice etc.

Reading through you say most of the ride maybe wasn't 5mph but 2-3mph. Again I ask what bike are you riding as 2-3mph be extremely difficult to maintain balance. You say route was up and down so not sure on amount climbed. Yeah funny that, if you go up a hill usually you find you need to go down again. And vice versa. Doesn't your new computer give you elevation data?

I find it hard to believe this isn't a wind up. Apologies if it's not but so much vague and hard to fathom info it could almost be someone having a little fun.
 
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