32 mm Vs 35mm Tire

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braaivleis2003

Active Member
Location
Derbyshire
How much faster is a 32 mm tire compared to a 35 mm tire. I've just recently fitted some 35 mm Shwalbe Marathon Supremes to my bike and very suprised at how well they roll considering the width. Even though they're 35 mm the profile of the part of the tire that has contact with the road seems quite narrow to my liking. But I'm thinking maybe I should have gone with the 32 mm. These tires compared to the Continental sport contact (35mm) that I replaced due to a long screw putting a hole in the side wall seem to soak up the road and even though pumped up to the same psi, the ride doesn't seem as harsh. Cheers

Paul
 

Smokin Joe

Legendary Member
You can't compare two different tyre brands and put the difference in ride down to a 5% increase in width.
 

Citius

Guest
As Joe says, you have to compare like with like. There are too many other factors to consider, it's not just down to the relative width.
 
OP
OP
braaivleis2003

braaivleis2003

Active Member
Location
Derbyshire
Let me rephrase myself. Is there much of a difference in speed between a 32 mm and 35 mm Shwalbe Marathon Supreme. Trying to think how else to word this. Its probably irrelevant anyway ^_^
 

James Ots

Senior Member
Location
Coventry
I switched from 25 to 23mm Rubino Pros and didn't really notice the difference (except that I could use Roadracer mudguards with then). From that I'd extrapolate that 32mm probably won't make much difference for you, but I haven't tried that particular combination myself.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Let me rephrase myself. Is there much of a difference in speed between a 32 mm and 35 mm Shwalbe Marathon Supreme.
Well, it doesn't exist in 35mm, so the 32mm must be faster. ;) Seriously, what they label as 700x35c is actually 37-622... but I'd expect you're trading weight against comfort, not speed, based on my experience comparing Delta Cruisers of different widths.
 
Location
Loch side.
Let me rephrase myself. Is there much of a difference in speed between a 32 mm and 35 mm Shwalbe Marathon Supreme. Trying to think how else to word this. Its probably irrelevant anyway ^_^
No there is not much difference.
Rolling resistance between two tyres for a given load (and the same tube in both tyres), differs slightly. The wider tyre will have a lower rolling resistance because the rubber in the load affected zone (a zone slightly larger than the contact patch) will have to compress less in a larger tyre. Rubber compression causes energy losses.
However, the amount of rolling resistance we are talking about is measured in grams of pressure. And the total rolling resistance will be less than five or six grams or so compared to kilograms of resistance to due aerodynamics. Therefore, saving a bit on one tyre over the other is not worth agonizing over. Buy whichever tyre is cheaper at the time.
As they say in your (ex) part of the world, "dit maak vokkol verskil.".
 

KneesUp

Guru
How much faster is a 32 mm tire compared to a 35 mm tire. I've just recently fitted some 35 mm Shwalbe Marathon Supremes to my bike and very suprised at how well they roll considering the width. Even though they're 35 mm the profile of the part of the tire that has contact with the road seems quite narrow to my liking. But I'm thinking maybe I should have gone with the 32 mm. These tires compared to the Continental sport contact (35mm) that I replaced due to a long screw putting a hole in the side wall seem to soak up the road and even though pumped up to the same psi, the ride doesn't seem as harsh. Cheers

Paul

The research tends to show that wider tyres roll better unless you are testing tyres in a lab, so the answer to the question in bold is probably 'they're not, they're slower.' (assuming adequate inflation and the same model of tyre)

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/bicycle-quarterly-performance-of-tires/
 

SpokeyDokey

67, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
How much faster is a 32 mm tire compared to a 35 mm tire. I've just recently fitted some 35 mm Shwalbe Marathon Supremes to my bike and very suprised at how well they roll considering the width. Even though they're 35 mm the profile of the part of the tire that has contact with the road seems quite narrow to my liking. But I'm thinking maybe I should have gone with the 32 mm. These tires compared to the Continental sport contact (35mm) that I replaced due to a long screw putting a hole in the side wall seem to soak up the road and even though pumped up to the same psi, the ride doesn't seem as harsh. Cheers

Paul

I have 32mm Supremes and 35mm Deluxes and the only difference is that the latter grip way better on twisty loose grit roads.
 
Location
Loch side.
The research tends to show that wider tyres roll better unless you are testing tyres in a lab, so the answer to the question in bold is probably 'they're not, they're slower.' (assuming adequate inflation and the same model of tyre)

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/bicycle-quarterly-performance-of-tires/
As much as I respect Jan Heine's work in debunking common cycling myths, I dismiss this article. You just cannot do a test where the variables are so small, on an open air test in a rundown scenario. There is no way that atmospheric variances do not affect the data.

Further, he still wonders whether clinchers or tubulars perform better. These tests have been done conclusively by Jobst Brandt in the 1980s. His data is there for all to see on Analytical Cycling.com. The answer is not as obvious as anyone would expect.

He claims his research has profound implications. Not. He doesn't even publish the data. He implies that Tour Magazine invented the steel drum test - it did not and he says that tyres, for some mysterious reason, have to tested soft-ish on steel drums. Not. These experiments have been done on steel drums at all attainable pressures.

Anecdotal claims that he can now keep up in the paceline (because of this or that tyre) are nonsensical, as is the claim that in a paceline, rolling resistance is higher than air drag. Of course he doesn't provide any empirical evidence for that, just a cast-away comment that is supposed to be taken seriously.

Dismiss the "findings" with dismay.

Edit: I found another corker: "We discovered that temperature affects rolling resistance." Well, he should have also found that temperature affects air drag, but they didn't even think about that, they were too focused on finishing in time for lunch.
 

snailracer

Über Member
As much as I respect Jan Heine's work in debunking common cycling myths, I dismiss this article. You just cannot do a test where the variables are so small, on an open air test in a rundown scenario. There is no way that atmospheric variances do not affect the data...
Further, he still wonders whether clinchers or tubulars perform better. These tests have been done conclusively by Jobst Brandt in the 1980s. His data is there for all to see on Analytical Cycling.com. The answer is not as obvious as anyone would expect...
Anecdotal claims that he can now keep up in the paceline (because of this or that tyre) are nonsensical, as is the claim that in a paceline, rolling resistance is higher than air drag....
Heine's main point is about suspension losses, which he claims are much more significant (i.e. more watts of lost power) than rolling resistance and air drag (presumably on a sufficiently-rough road surface). He describes the drastic increase in drag and slowdown felt when riding over rumble strips, which I'm sure most of us have also experienced.

Heine's musings over clinchers or tubulars is, again, not specifically about rolling resistance, but about their impact on suspension losses, which is affected by how flexible their sidewalls are and their usable range of inflation pressures. This affects how well they absorb bumps and isolate the sprung mass of the rider and bicycle. It is mainly in the body of the rider where the suspension losses happen - jiggling of the rider's flesh is powered by vibrations transmitted up from the road surface.

Brandt is either discussing rolling resistance in a very narrow technical sense, or considers that suspension losses are insignificant but offers no estimation of just how insignificant. Heine, on the other hand, has considered both. Brandt would be correct if real roads were as smooth as the steel drums used in rolling resistance tests, which is rarely the case.
...He implies that Tour Magazine invented the steel drum test - it did not and he says that tyres, for some mysterious reason, have to tested soft-ish on steel drums. Not. These experiments have been done on steel drums at all attainable pressures...
No mystery here, wider tyres are tested at lower pressures because they cannot be inflated to pressures as high as narrower tyres - this is a limitation of the tyres, not the test procedure or equipment. Within the same brand & model, wider tyres usually have lower maximum inflation pressures than narrower ones, due to the mechanical limitations of the bead/rim interface.

In any case, the premise behind the 15% tyre drop method is that wider tyres should be inflated to a lower pressure than narrower tyres to reduce suspension losses (which results in higher speed) for a given level of snakebite resistance, so it's not even a limitation.
...You just cannot do a test where the variables are so small, on an open air test in a rundown scenario. There is no way that atmospheric variances do not affect the data...
...He doesn't even publish the data...
... Of course he doesn't provide any empirical evidence for that, just a cast-away comment that is supposed to be taken seriously....
Heine does not work for a bike or tyre manufacturer and does not have access to laboratory equipment - roll-down tests on a real road are all he can do and he has described their drawbacks, so I won't knock him for that.

Tyre manufacturers don't publish suspension loss tests, I can speculate this is because:
1. There is no standard for a jiggling, vibrating human body, therefore test results would not be comparable
2. There is no standard for how rough a road surface is, therefore test results would not be comparable
3. If suspension losses are much larger than rolling resistance losses, then that would make the differences between different tyres seem insignificantly tiny, which does not help sell that brand of tyre. Much like factoring in rider weight makes the weight savings of a more expensive, lighter bike seem insignificantly tiny.
...Edit: I found another corker: "We discovered that temperature affects rolling resistance." Well, he should have also found that temperature affects air drag, but they didn't even think about that, they were too focused on finishing in time for lunch.
Which is why Heine tested at the same temperature.
 
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snailracer

Über Member
Let me rephrase myself. Is there much of a difference in speed between a 32 mm and 35 mm Shwalbe Marathon Supreme. Trying to think how else to word this. Its probably irrelevant anyway ^_^
In principle, if you believe in Heine's concepts (which I do):
- If you ride on really, really smooth roads, the 32mm should be faster IF you can inflate it to a sufficiently-higher maximum pressure.
- If you ride on rougher roads, the 35mm should be faster, because you can inflate it to a lower pressure that rides smoother and therefore reduces suspension losses, for any equivalent level of snakebite resistance. You'd also be more comfortable and have more grip, although the heavier tyre may accelerate/climb slower because of increased weight.

In real life, the 32 and 35 may have the same max rated inflation pressure, which would swing it in favour of the 35mm. In any case, there might not be enough difference between 32mm and 35mm to be noticeable.
 
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