32 or 36 Spokes?

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Nigelnightmare

Über Member
What brakes?

Drum=Sturmey Archer (32/36).
Disc or Rim=Shimano, SON, Shutter Precision (32/36).
Rim=Sturmey Archer(32-36).

AFAIK S/A don't do disc.

For under 100 Euro's you'll be leaning towards Shimano OR second hand.
I prefer 36 for durability but have used 32's without problems.

JMTPW
HTH
 

Low Gear Guy

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Spa cycles currently have a complete wheel and dynamo for £100 excluding Yorkshire export duties.
 
It just so happens that I have a Shimano dh 3n72 36hole hub...if you want it Andy.
It's done about a thousand miles give or take and is in very good condition.
£15 + cost of shipping and its yours.

This is the best and most rational motivation for Andy's wheel choice I've seen so far.

Just checked the wheel rim, and it's 36, so... PM coming to Mr. @Vantage...
 
Rider weight is the other factor. I'm tall and quite heavy (not fat!) and would normally opt for 36 spokes on a touring/general purpose bike.

I've had good experiences with wheels from Herr Rose in Bocholt - both off-the-shelf and custom specified.

Rob

Foe reasons unknown I forgot about them, I'm not sure why as they have had plenty of my money before...
 
Location
Loch side.
Interesting: Why?

It depends on what you mean by pretzelling.*

A buckled wheel is out of true because of localised spoke tension or lack thereof (i.e. broken spoke).

A pretzelled wheel collapsed in order to relieve an oversupply of overall spoke tension.

A pretzelled wheel takes on a saddle shape because the rim could not handle the tension. In a 32-spoke wheel it is extremey difficult to get the overall tension so high that the wheel collapses (pretzels) but on a 32-spoke wheel you can do it in the bench whilst building.

If you have a wheel that's just-just on the limit, a small change in tension because of riding will make it collapse.

Point is, for use other than extreme use of sorts and touring is not an extreme use, 32 spoke wheels are just fine. Then again, if there's a free dynamo to be had, the optimum number of spokes is whatever that dynamo has.

* A wheel of course does not collapse into a pretzel shape. A pretzel being a pastry that's flat, like a wheel. What is meant by a pretzel shape is a saddle shape, or hyperbolic paraboloid. A wheel collapses from its flat disc shape into that shape, in order to relieve tension in spokes and compression in the rim. The wheel doesn't collapse into a perfect hyperbolic paraboloid because the rim is no perfectly uniform. It has weak spots and strong spots, notably where the valve hole is drilled (weak spot) and on the opposite side, at the join, where a lug is inserted into the rim before it is welded. This makes the rim stronger at the join than the rest of the rim. However, one can still recognise the familiar shape even if it is slightly distorted by rim non-uniformity.
 
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It depends on what you mean by pretzelling.

A buckled wheel is out of true because of localised spoke tension or lack thereof (i.e. broken spoke).

A pretzelled wheel collapsed in order to relieve an oversupply of overall spoke tension.

A pretzelled wheel takes on a saddle shape because the rim could not handle the tension. In a 32-spoke wheel it is extremey difficult to get the overall tension so high that the wheel collapses (pretzels) but on a 32-spoke wheel you can do it in the bench whilst building.

If you have a wheel that's just-just on the limit, a small change in tension because of riding will make it collapse.

That makes sense. I probably shouldn't have been so flippant in my original post either. How easy is it to achieve the "just on the limit"?

Point is, for use other than extreme use of sorts and touring is not an extreme use, 32 spoke wheels are just fine. Then again, if there's a free dynamo to be had, the optimum number of spokes is whatever that dynamo has.

Well, quite. It appears I have the rims and spokes, and thanks to @Vantage an inexpensive working dynamo. Hopefully this will mean I can dismantle the currently rather worn dynamo in the wheel and gradually build that back into an second working wheel...
 
Location
Loch side.
That makes sense. I probably shouldn't have been so flippant in my original post either. How easy is it to achieve the "just on the limit"?

That depends on the rim. The heavier the rim, the more tension it can support and thus the more difficult it is to overload it. Deep Section aluminium rims are almost impossible to overtension. You will strip the squares off the nipples or wind up the spokes before that happens. Note that you CANNOT pull a nipple through a new rim by applying too much tension to the spoke.
 
Location
Loch side.
I think that would take some serious effort.
I could be wrong, but wouldn't there be a danger of rounding off the nipples or snapping spokes before that even becomes a remote possibility?
Have a look at the similar question from Andy.

It is very easy to over tension a rim such as a Mavic MA2 or any other shallow, box section rim. The smaller the rim profile or the thinner the rim material, the easier it is to over tension. Rims such as Stans Crest and MA2 can be over tensioned without even a squeak from the nipples.

Basically, you can weigh a rim and deduct how much tension it can take.
 
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