748 WBH Mercedes - Resolves me to add a rear-view cam

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gert_lush

New Member
Gert, I was in no way having a pop at you... but your post was so wrong and inflamatory in that it completely ignored what ST had said. I trust ST's opinion on said road and from the video his position and riding was very much in line with the government approved cycle training schemes. I would ask that you get yourself on one of these asap.

http://www.ctc.org.u...aspx?TabID=5116
http://www.iam.org.u...ngtraining.html


If you come here and post that someone was wrong and give "advice" that I or others think may influence others into a less than safe riding style I and others will point this out.

As you will have read previously, I volunteer on a cyclescheme approved kids course - as such, I am aware of the publications. But, thanks for pointing them out anyway as other may not be aware of them - though, they are far from perfect and the CTC is really not very good. Hence we dumped the CTC partnership.

Some of the advice in the publications is somewhat dated and assumes that all drivers stick to the highway code (duh!). We teach the kids to be more adept and to ride beyond themselves - a little bit of the motorbike training course and road craft, rarely taught these days if at all.

There is nothing wrong with my post, your opinion is that I am wrong - lets get that straight.

However, I am not concerned about your opinion - Perhaps you lack experience as a road user or commuter and are just a bit upset that I have contradicted another cyclist and yourself. You guys seem to need cameras, I have not needed one, ever?!

The OP has put himself in the situation, otherwise it would not be on here. Yes, drivers get agitated, they do!! And yes, I have pointed out 2 ways in which the OP could have avoided any altercation - it is not advice. Just pointing out that, with the benefit of hindsight, things can be done very differently.

As I say, I would have done the whole thing very differently, and would not have had the incident as a result as I would have been long gone - but thats probably more down to speed and experience (light bike and big legs + a cigar waiting for me at home)

What the OP did is classically what I see everyday at a round-a-bout on my own commute - usually it is the FWC's or noob/nodders that do it - it is a legit road move and one I would do in a car. But on a bike, you have to be more crafty, faster and pre-empt the exit and filter.

Live and learn and live again to fight another day.
 

Canrider

Guru
The OP has put himself in the situation, otherwise it would not be on here. Yes, drivers get agitated, they do!! And yes, I have pointed out 2 ways in which the OP could have avoided any altercation - it is not advice. Just pointing out that, with the benefit of hindsight, things can be done very differently.
Your '2 ways' were (paraphrased)

1) Ride in the gutter and wait (hope?) the cars will let you get out of the gutter when it's time to turn right.

2) Lane-split the two vehicles pulling up at the roundabout entrance, then shoot out and across it, overtaking the Fabia at 30+mph if need be.

Let us know what your training scheme's called, I want to steer my kids away from it.
 

downfader

extimus uero philosophus
Location
'ampsheeeer
As you will have read previously, I volunteer on a cyclescheme approved kids course - as such, I am aware of the publications. But, thanks for pointing them out anyway as other may not be aware of them - though, they are far from perfect and the CTC is really not very good. Hence we dumped the CTC partnership.

Some of the advice in the publications is somewhat dated and assumes that all drivers stick to the highway code (duh!). We teach the kids to be more adept and to ride beyond themselves - a little bit of the motorbike training course and road craft, rarely taught these days if at all.

There is nothing wrong with my post, your opinion is that I am wrong - lets get that straight.

However, I am not concerned about your opinion - Perhaps you lack experience as a road user or commuter and are just a bit upset that I have contradicted another cyclist and yourself. You guys seem to need cameras, I have not needed one, ever?!

The OP has put himself in the situation, otherwise it would not be on here. Yes, drivers get agitated, they do!! And yes, I have pointed out 2 ways in which the OP could have avoided any altercation - it is not advice. Just pointing out that, with the benefit of hindsight, things can be done very differently.

As I say, I would have done the whole thing very differently, and would not have had the incident as a result as I would have been long gone - but thats probably more down to speed and experience (light bike and big legs + a cigar waiting for me at home)

What the OP did is classically what I see everyday at a round-a-bout on my own commute - usually it is the FWC's or noob/nodders that do it - it is a legit road move and one I would do in a car. But on a bike, you have to be more crafty, faster and pre-empt the exit and filter.

Live and learn and live again to fight another day.


You train kids???? Jesus Christ, man. I missed you saying that earlier perhaps you should post where and when as Canrider has said so that we can forward these issues to whoever administrates the scheme you volunteer on..?

Methinks you're making stuff up now to get a reaction. And any fool can google my history on the web and what I have said in relation to my experience and knowledge.;)
 

BSRU

A Human Being
Location
Swindon
Up to round-a-bout behind VW van - fine, although personally, I would have gone between the VW van and taxi as the taxi was clearly moving off indicating a clear round-a-bout - i.e. get the jump on the traffic.

I have to say I find this statement very disturbing, trying to squeeze between two moving vehicles assuming the roundabout is clear. The taxi could be chancing his arm and just pulling out assuming any vehicle approaching will slow down, the VW could be a sheep and going just because they see the taxi going. You would also leave yourself open to being side swiped by drivers paying all their attention to the roundabout rather than what's in between them.

All in all, I would never assume a roundabout is clear unless I had a clear view of my own, assumption is the mother of all f*** ups.
Also clearly the rider is in the correct position for that approach to that RAB with that traffic is primary and not hidden in no-mans land between the vehicles.
 

gert_lush

New Member
Your '2 ways' were (paraphrased)

1) Ride in the gutter and wait (hope?) the cars will let you get out of the gutter when it's time to turn right.

2) Lane-split the two vehicles pulling up at the roundabout entrance, then shoot out and across it, overtaking the Fabia at 30+mph if need be.

Let us know what your training scheme's called, I want to steer my kids away from it.

LOL! Not what I said.... at all!! Re-read please.
 

gert_lush

New Member
You train kids???? Jesus Christ, man. I missed you saying that earlier perhaps you should post where and when as Canrider has said so that we can forward these issues to whoever administrates the scheme you volunteer on..?

Methinks you're making stuff up now to get a reaction. And any fool can google my history on the web and what I have said in relation to my experience and knowledge.;)


So, I am an incompetent troll now then am I - fair enough, I can't prove otherwise, so be it?! Yes, I have seen your history - interesting stuff (seriously, I liked some of the musician stuff and what you had to say - some of the vids)

No, I am afraid that I don't have a "net" print - not even FB. Although I work in technology, I am not a great net user - my job is somewhat leftfield, I won't go into detail.

I have taught kids to ride for probably 10 years or so - not had a death yet (if that is a victory,. I am not too sure)!! I only volunteer to help out, I don't write the scheme or policy control it - there are things I disagree with it on, but you have to stuck to curriculum. I think Canriders comments are just silly and exagerated - kinda like The Sun is.

Again - The OP put himslef in that place and got an angry reaction from the driver - I would not have done what he did, we don't know that the outcome would have been, but I probably would not have been where he was or got beeped......I have offered 2 alternative routes, however, said OP may have felt unsafe - is this a reflection on me or the OP's abilities/experience?

It is not very easy to write a description of road craft, but I think that some of you are bandwagoning and making a few things up in your own head.

Yours trollingly.....*no smiley for trolls*
 

perplexed

Guru
Location
Sheffield
I'll say again Gert, from someone who knows the area, that ST's position is correct. I cannot see that you've offered a viable alternative at all.

And for the record, I have many thousands of miles commuting experience...
 

gambatte

Middle of the pack...
Location
S Yorks
No, I can't....I also am totally shite at football ........ ;-)

You'd be perfectly at home where this incident happenned then :biggrin:
 

the snail

Guru
Location
Chippenham
Know your place ST! That guy paid a lot of money for his merc, not to mention all the road tax. He is obviously a very important person with very important things to do. You wasted several seconds of his valuable time there. Get back in the gutter - or better still get off his road altogether - and be grateful he took time out of his busy important person schedule to beep his horn at you, rather than running you down like you deserve. I've been cycling forever, I've got my cycling proficiency certificate and my 25 yds swimming certificate, so I know what I'm talking about :stop:
 

Canrider

Guru
LOL! Not what I said.... at all!! Re-read please.
Very well.

1) Post #8:
You could have stayed left and allowed faster traffic to pass. Why not just stay left and let people get past - from the look of the road, there would have been loads of space.
So, inviting following cars to pass unsafely (that is, within the same lane, and in this instance on a roundabout as well), check.
Post #19:
I analysed something based on how it looks from the OP's vid :- bike in middle of lane, moving slow across round-a-bout, with a queue of traffic behind - some of the traffic getting a bit upset....
You could in all reality have used the left side, without any foreseable danger in the vid, and let some traffic by without any issue and got your foot down (so to speak) - IMHO.
Again a suggestion to invite traffic to pass unsafely within the same lane, and the assertion that ST was moving 'slow'. 'Slow', apparently defined as 'keeping up with the VW van in the first instance and the Fabia in the second'.

2) Post #30:
I would have gone between the VW van and taxi as the taxi was clearly moving off indicating a clear round-a-bout - i.e. get the jump on the traffic.
So, lane-splitting in freely-moving traffic. Not the safest course of action.
Post #37:
You would not have been beeped at if you were not in the way and long gone - just sayin' There is no reason why you cannot overtake the car ahead.
And suggesting overtaking the Fabia, which was travelling about the speed limit itself.

I've also noted this, from post #30:
Had I taken the jump (more likely), I would have gone left lane (right side of on the round-a-bout). I would have stayed in the right lane coming onto the filter, almost in the middle of the road in anticipation of my right turn and left a massive gap for people to undertake on the left.[/quote]
Now that reads like taking the left lane through the roundabout, then exiting it not via the LH lane of the exit, but the RH lane instead. You know, the lane for traffic exiting from the inside lane(s) of the roundabout?
dg_070540.jpg
 
OP
OP
Sheffield_Tiger
I'm sure that all this burst of speed and overtaking 30mph cars, blasting onto roundabouts through gaps and the like is perfectly possible on a road bike that isn't on the last leg of a shopping trip with 2 fully laden panniers and racktop bag, on a "bitsa" with a mix of touring/road components on an MTB frame with bouncy forks...

But of course anyone who isn't a performance cyclist on a performance bike oughtn't to be on a public highway...
 

Bman

Guru
Location
Herts.
Gert. Welcome to the forum.

I'm impressed by your cycling achievements you list, but I don't think your going to win this one.

Drivers might get annoyed by slow moving traffic. Milk floats, JCB's or, god forbid, a cyclist, but they are all entitled to be there. Drivers are not entitled to get angry and start using their horn to show it.

As I'm sure you know, riding in primary is essential at times, to maintain a safe presence on the road. If you are travelling on a road where there is not enough room to overtake safely. You should be in primary, like the OP was. A cyclist is perfectly within their right to hold up traffic for 20seconds as they make progress. A following driver is NOT allowed to sound their horn in anger, undertake or bully vulnerable road users. I block overtakes on some stretches of road due to potholes, children, litter or other potential hazards. Some might say thats unreasonable. I say I'm riding safely.

Following traffic without making sure its clear yourself? Now this makes me think your not actually a cyclist or even a regular road user.
 
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