8 Speed straight to 12 Speed - why not?

[Blue Hills]

No problem.

It was suggested by John at Spa Cycles as part of the build of my shiny new Spa Aubisque. It works perfectly with the Sora Rd and an extender. Fd is 46/30 also with a Sora derailler.

Here's a picture of the bike with bars way too high and seat having just slipped downwards.

View attachment 614871

is the cassette standing up to use? - ie do you think it as durable as a shimano component?
(I use shimano stuff for my drivetrains apart from chains.)

Did John from Spa say anything about folks' long-term experience with it?

 

[All uphill]

is the cassette standing up to use? - ie do you think it as durable as a shimano component?
(I use shimano stuff for my drivetrains apart from chains.)

Did John from Spa say anything about folks' long-term experience with it?

I've only been 60 miles with it!

My other bikes Sun Race cassettes have always been fine. My 8 speed tourer has about 2000 miles on its Sunrace cassette.

 

[mustang1]

It's called evolution, either in a short or longer time frame, dependent on several factors.
You wouldn't expect to go from Neanderthal to modern man in one jump.

But this is like going from 19mm to 21 to 23 to 25 to 28 (I think that's either the current thing or are we still heading that way - idk). Like did omsone say 19 wasn't good enough so we should push 21, and then someone decided.... and so on. But overall, yes I see from yours and others' comments: point taken and I'm mostly in agreement.

 

[mustang1]

When I got back into cycling in 1989 I bought an old-fashioned bike computer (magnet on a spoke, sensor, wire up to computer type). I got a bit obsessed with the numbers and used to log them after every ride, noting speeds and distances to a silly 2 or 3 decimal places. (I recently found an old diary from the time and was chuckling at it...) The paper equivalent of Strava, I suppose!

After a while the cheapo computer broke. For a couple of rides, I felt really at a loss, but it eventually dawned on me that I was enjoying the rides more computer-free. I did without a computer after that until I started doing audax rides, when I needed one to see where that hard-to-spot LH turn at 137.6 km actually was. I got a bit lost on my first 200 into the Yorkshire Dales though and after that bought an early model Etrex GPS to use for navigation. I very rarely flipped to the data screen to see numbers - 99% of the time I was just following the grey breadcrumb trail on the screen. And enjoying the riding...

I have just switched to a 2 GPS setup, having been given 2 Garmin Edges (a 500 and a 200). I use the 200 for breadcrumb trail navigation, and the 500 for data. I'm not really interested in the numbers for performance reasons, more for how much higher does this hill go, how far is it to the cafe, will I get back in time for the train home? That kind of thing.

When I got back into biking years back and bought my first road bike, I also bought a bike computer but never installed it as I realised I may become a slave to data. I probably still have it lying around somewhere. I think I made the right choice back then.

 

[Cycleops]

When I got back into biking years back and bought my first road bike, I also bought a bike computer but never installed it as I realised I may become a slave to data. I probably still have it lying around somewhere. I think I made the right choice back then.

I can hear the millions of Strava users screaming ‘Ludite’

 

[Blue Hills]

I can hear the millions of Strava users screaming ‘Ludite’

they'll learn (to chill)

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,
Imagine - Shimano execs are sitting in meeting back when Dura Ace was 7 speed and they decided to make the jump to 11 speed.

11 seems reasonable after all who could ever want more? 12/13 come on now you are just being ridiculous.

So 11 speed Dura Ace is made. Do they announce it well in advance or just spring it on the market?

By making such a leap Shimano have introduced a huge problem for the whole bike industry, just replaced 7 speed Dura Ace is obsolete, not just last year's model. So do bike makers offer some form of discounted upgrade for those who just bought it or say sorry, tough luck? Do they refit existing unsold 7 speed models that are in the supply chain with 11 speed?

Pre covid it was common to see 25%-30% discounts on last years model, but would this persuade many to buy 7 speed when 11 is now normal? More likely they would have be offering discounts to attract people who are not racers and had never considered Dura Ace but at 60% off the whole bike, why not?

The same issue applies to Ultegra/600 groupsets and bikes as many were bought by competitive riders for whom the cost saving/performance loss made 7 speed Ultegra a decent choice over 7 speed Dura Ace, but not a decent choice over 11 speed Dura Ace

Most users of of 105/Sora would be unaffected as Ultegra/Dura Ace was never considered anyway.

Then there may be limited supplies of 11 speed Dura Ace leading to articles in the press saying, team/rider claims they lost the race because the winner had 11 speed and we could only get 7 speed. This argument holds much less water when the difference is only one cog.

Shimano could pre announce the 11 speed group set which would mean that 7 speed customers would know that their new purchase is obsolete, some may buy after demanding big discounts but many would wait. This would of course cover not only the groupsets but complete bikes in various stages of the supply chain.

As of now Shimano now have a well balanced road range, each groupset offers "something" over the next step down but each new version of a groupset doesn't make much, most or all of the existing groupsets obsolete.

So I am suggesting that the one cog at a time is more about maintaining good relations with bike makers, retailers and customers than it is a technical thing.

Bye

Ian

 

[mustang1]

Good morning,
Imagine - Shimano execs are sitting in meeting back when Dura Ace was 7 speed and they decided to make the jump to 11 speed.

11 seems reasonable after all who could ever want more? 12/13 come on now you are just being ridiculous.

So 11 speed Dura Ace is made. Do they announce it well in advance or just spring it on the market?

By making such a leap Shimano have introduced a huge problem for the whole bike industry, just replaced 7 speed Dura Ace is obsolete, not just last year's model. So do bike makers offer some form of discounted upgrade for those who just bought it or say sorry, tough luck? Do they refit existing unsold 7 speed models that are in the supply chain with 11 speed?

Pre covid it was common to see 25%-30% discounts on last years model, but would this persuade many to buy 7 speed when 11 is now normal? More likely they would have be offering discounts to attract people who are not racers and had never considered Dura Ace but at 60% off the whole bike, why not?

The same issue applies to Ultegra/600 groupsets and bikes as many were bought by competitive riders for whom the cost saving/performance loss made 7 speed Ultegra a decent choice over 7 speed Dura Ace, but not a decent choice over 11 speed Dura Ace

Most users of of 105/Sora would be unaffected as Ultegra/Dura Ace was never considered anyway.

Then there may be limited supplies of 11 speed Dura Ace leading to articles in the press saying, team/rider claims they lost the race because the winner had 11 speed and we could only get 7 speed. This argument holds much less water when the difference is only one cog.

Shimano could pre announce the 11 speed group set which would mean that 7 speed customers would know that their new purchase is obsolete, some may buy after demanding big discounts but many would wait. This would of course cover not only the groupsets but complete bikes in various stages of the supply chain.

As of now Shimano now have a well balanced road range, each groupset offers "something" over the next step down but each new version of a groupset doesn't make much, most or all of the existing groupsets obsolete.

So I am suggesting that the one cog at a time is more about maintaining good relations with bike makers, retailers and customers than it is a technical thing.

Bye

Ian

copy/pasted from your post:
So I am suggesting that the one cog at a time is more about maintaining good relations with bike makers, retailers and customers than it is a technical thing.

That is a good point: the relationships between customers and suppliers.