8 Speed straight to 12 Speed - why not?

[mustang1]

When I got back into road cycling, i bought a bike with an 8 speed cassette and I'm not familiar with what came before, so I'll jsut start at 8 speed.

Then the market had 9 speed. Then 10. 11. And now 12. That's great.

But why did we have to go through 8,9,10,11,12... why not from 8 to 10... or 8 to 12.... or 8 to 14? Can't engineers figure out how to get from 8 speed to 12 speed without going through all the other iterations? Or is there something more sinister going on behind closed doors in the MARKETING DEPARTMENT. If htey went straight from 8 to 12, what would they sell in the intervening years and keep the consumer on their toes waiting to buy the next thing.

I was going to add this to the "what annoys you" thread, but this deserves it's own ranting post.

 

[si_c]

Shimano released their first road 8 speed groupset in 1988. It took them 33 years to get to 12 speed, so I'm assuming there were some engineering challenges between then which needed to be solved, and the best way to do that is incrementally.

 

[DCLane]

↑ this

12 speed is quite different to 11, with 11 speed requiring a different freehub or machining the end of the freehub to fit. 12 speed Shimano is a different freehub entirely.

And you've not even mentioned 13 speed

 

[cougie uk]

Wouldn't their rivals have jumped if they could ?

You might as well say - why are mobile phone speeds increasing year on year - why didn't the iphone just come out as an iPhone 12 (or whatever).

Technology innit.

 

[Arrowfoot]

I suppose mainly material related - thinner, able to handle the strain, doesn't crack or bend, for cassette and chain without the need for changing other aspects of the frame or components such as wheel hub with the exception of spacers. Smoother gears changes. In those days, cyclist attempting hills and flat were not many. So part demand.

Not to mention the manufacturing process required to handle more precise tolerance

 

[T4tomo]

That Henry Ford was a con artist too, he could have give us a fuel injected 300bhp V6 with a battery back-up. Bloody charlatan.

 

[MichaelW2]

More sprockets require:
Thinner sprockets
Closer sprocket spacing
Thinner chains
More precise deraillure movement.

Most advances are rolled out at the top end pro race groupset ( Dura Ace) and trickle down over the next year or so. The advanced materials and methods of the high end cannot be replicated cheaply so lower grade materials are used. The results may not be as good as in the high end.
Personally I think that peak optimum gearing for pressed steel midrange groupsets was 8 speed and see no advantage in going to thinner more orecise systems.

 

[All uphill]

Progress for me is going from 11 speed on my older bike (nice but expensive) to 9 speed on my new bike (cheap and hopefully long lasting).

I'm looking forwards to 7 speed in a few years.

 

[oldwheels]

When I got back into road cycling, i bought a bike with an 8 speed cassette and I'm not familiar with what came before, so I'll jsut start at 8 speed.

Then the market had 9 speed. Then 10. 11. And now 12. That's great.

But why did we have to go through 8,9,10,11,12... why not from 8 to 10... or 8 to 12.... or 8 to 14? Can't engineers figure out how to get from 8 speed to 12 speed without going through all the other iterations? Or is there something more sinister going on behind closed doors in the MARKETING DEPARTMENT. If htey went straight from 8 to 12, what would they sell in the intervening years and keep the consumer on their toes waiting to buy the next thing.

I was going to add this to the "what annoys you" thread, but this deserves it's own ranting post.

Probably what is known as "skimming the market".

 

[Drago]

Of course they push the market as far as it will reasonably go, and then push it again in a different direction. They are in business to add value to the bottom line for shareholders.

Its a shame that all this development hasn't gone into something like a cheap, light, robust hub or BB gear system that can sell for a similar price. The derailleur system works well, better than it should by rights, but the shortcomings are huge, and so much development effort, time and money has been spent on a system that will ultimately hit its limit...although convenient new standards like Boost, or variations thereof, give the pitential for more real estate to be available in the future to kick the development can a little fuether up the road.

 

[Chris S]

I've only got 3 gears and I only ever use 2 of them

 

[FishFright]

Why do things have to change ? Almost always right after you cba to learn anything new too , conspiracy ??

 

[Cycleops]

It's called evolution, either in a short or longer time frame, dependent on several factors.
You wouldn't expect to go from Neanderthal to modern man in one jump.

 

[palinurus]

You wouldn't expect to go from Neanderthal to modern man in one jump.

I dunno, I've pretty much done that when I think of myself in my 20s.

 

[Juan Kog]

I've only got 3 gears and I only ever use 2 of them

My third gear is the 24 inch gear.