A little bit of legal advice please.

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Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
I wonder if I may be able to pick someones brains please?
I have a shop selling kitchens,bathrooms and tiles. Next door to me is another shop (part of a chain) which sells bathrooms and tiles. Currently, due to an agreement I had with the store manager, I have a sign on their land. The manager I had the agreement with has now left and I have received an email from the regional manager telling me to remove my sign. It's a pain in the bum but I guess it's understandable. However, in the email he has stated that if I do not remove my sign within a week then he will, my question is, is he allowed to do this? Can he move, destroy or otherwise tamper with my sign considering it is not his property even though it is on his land?
Thanks in advance.
 
Whether it's legal or not I'd do the same. Give you reasonable time to shift it. A week is reasonable unless you could demonstrate otherwise. I would then leave it by your door.

Do you think the week is unreasonable? Or that they're asking you to do it?
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Is the agreement in writing?

Either way, I think he can move your sign and it'll be up to you to pursue a claim for the consequent loss - a written agreement would strengthen your hand. If he destroys or damages the sign (rather than leaving it by your door like @Markymark suggests), then you may be able to claim for that loss... but they may claim against you for putting your sign in their domain. I'm not sure if either would be regarded as criminal damage but I expect the police probably won't want to get involved in this sort of neighbour dispute.

Before you get into claims and stuff, you could approach the manager's manager or the landlord, but unless you've got something in writing, I'd expect the manager's manager will tell you to get lost and the landlord may only be interested if you will pay rent for the sign and their agreement with the chain store has some wriggle room.

My thoughts are based on what other business people have told me over the years, rather than being a lawyer or anything, so are probably worthless and I offer them as a simple reality check. Why's it so important to you? Why can't the sign go on your shop's land? If it was all verbal, it sounds like you've had a good run.
 
OP
OP
Mugshot

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Thanks for the replies so far.
It's a big sign so they'd have trouble moving it easily. I don't have a problem with moving it as such and as it's on their land it is of course their right to tell me to shift it. There isn't anything in writing from the previous manager and the landlord (same for both buildings) certainly wont be interested in getting involved in a dispute over signage.
The importance of the sign is that whilst we are next door to one another my building is rather hidden away down a side road compared to theirs and without signage at the end of the road fewer customers would be aware of my existance so it's necessary to have something down there somehow.
The question wasn't to see if I could refuse to move it, I can understand fully why they don't want it there, so I will move it, it was whether they could move it themselves.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The importance of the sign is that whilst we are next door to one another my building is rather hidden away down a side road compared to theirs and without signage at the end of the road fewer customers would be aware of my existance so it's necessary to have something down there somehow.
That sounds like a nearby road to me. It's called Garage Lane and in a shock of Norfolk literalism, contains several neighbouring garages - vehicle maintenance, that is - and there's some overlap in what they do, although there's a couple of specialists like a bodywork one and a commercial one. A cluster of A boards are put out on the highways verge on the corner with the main road every day and I think it's settled down to a steady state of sizes now so no-one messes with their neighbours' signs. Is there any dead space where you could put out a sign each day like that?
 
OP
OP
Mugshot

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Could you get the sign put somewhere else?

I'm guessing the new manager's come in and is wondering why they've got their competitor advertising their own store on his land.
That's what I'm looking at, I know where their boundary is and it's not where they think, although the sign in its current form will need to be changed to a slimmer sleeker version to make it fit, but that's doable.
The current manager is the old assistant manager. I think to be honest that both he and the regional manager are looking for excuses as to why the branch is failing (at least it certainly appears to be), and are grasping at any available straws. It's nice in some respects that they appear to consider me to be such a threat.
 

Joffey

Big Dosser
Location
Yorkshire
Ultimately the manager will do what he wants whether it's legal or not. Then it will be up to you to pursue him through the courts if it is damaged etc so a pain in the backside. Just take it down and if you can't do it in a week have a word with him. Or have a word with him, explain the previous agreement and see if he will agree to that too.
 
OP
OP
Mugshot

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
That sounds like a nearby road to me. It's called Garage Lane and in a shock of Norfolk literalism, contains several neighbouring garages - vehicle maintenance, that is - and there's some overlap in what they do, although there's a couple of specialists like a bodywork one and a commercial one. A cluster of A boards are put out on the highways verge on the corner with the main road every day and I think it's settled down to a steady state of sizes now so no-one messes with their neighbours' signs. Is there any dead space where you could put out a sign each day like that?
This is what we have currently, mine to the right, their's to the left;
20160601_122302.jpg


If you look at the Google streetview HERE you can see it's pretty easy, and a regular occurance too, to have people drive straight past our turning.
 
OP
OP
Mugshot

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Ultimately the manager will do what he wants whether it's legal or not. Then it will be up to you to pursue him through the courts if it is damaged etc so a pain in the backside. Just take it down and if you can't do it in a week have a word with him. Or have a word with him, explain the previous agreement and see if he will agree to that too.
I suspect you're right, it would turn into a whole load of hassle. At the risk of repeating myself whilst I don't want to move the sign I understand that I should and I will, I was just inerested in whether they could. Isn't there something about having a ball kicked into your garden that you don't have to give it back but also that you're not supposed to touch it, or is that an urban myth?
 

DCLane

Found in the Yorkshire hills ...
Thought that was the case - and I can see their intention to have your sign disappear.

What about a better sign on the main road junctions off, with directions? You could stick a bigger / better / more evident one on Pembroke Road than the brown one there at present.

Also can I suggest that yours could stand-out more? At the moment it does look somewhat similar in terms of colours.
 
OP
OP
Mugshot

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Thought that was the case - and I can see their intention to have your sign disappear.

What about a better sign on the main road junctions off, with directions? You could stick a bigger / better / more evident one on Pembroke Road than the brown one there at present.

Also can I suggest that yours could stand-out more? At the moment it does look somewhat similar in terms of colours.
Of course suggest away.
The brown sign has been changed and is now the same as the rest of the colour scheme, blue and silver.
What we actually find happens from speaking to people is that they see our signs and our building as they come off the roundabout but then drive straight past our turning as they assume that the signs they've seen are on the side of our neighbours building, how big they think the building is I don't know.
 
OP
OP
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Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Money talks. Agree a price.
That's an interesting suggestion however knowing what I know about this company they would either dismiss the idea out of hand or the price would be astronomical. Their, understandable in some respects, desire is that I am not there at all, hence the massive arrow they have at the end of the road to discourage people from turning right down my lane.
 
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