A question for the experts about a rear wheel build

[oldcarltonfan]

I’ve just split a rear Mavic Ksyrium Elite rim at the nipple, for the second time. I’m keen to move away from these fragile rims and build something stronger; I weigh 87Kg, which doesn’t help.

I have 2 questions for the cognoscenti of CycleChat:

Is it possible to use the existing Mavic Ksyrium Elite rear hub to build onto a better rim (if so, which rim), or does the cockamamie spoke and nipple system used by Mavic sabotage the idea?

Assuming that I can’t simply re-rim the wheel, what hub, rim and spoke combination would you build for a light but strong rear for a heavy rider? I’m leaning towards a Hope hub (RS4?), an H Plus Son Archetype Road Rim and Sapim or similar aero-spokes; were ‘team-think’ to suggest, I’d risk a 28 spoke count 2-cross, instead of my ‘usual’ 32 spoke 3-cross.

All ideas gratefully received.

Thank you.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I’ve just split a rear Mavic Ksyrium Elite rim at the nipple, for the second time. I’m keen to move away from these fragile rims and build something stronger; I weigh 87Kg, which doesn’t help.

I have 2 questions for the cognoscenti of CycleChat:

Is it possible to use the existing Mavic Ksyrium Elite rear hub to build onto a better rim (if so, which rim), or does the cockamamie spoke and nipple system used by Mavic sabotage the idea?

It is a proprietary system and cannot be matched with standard wheels. Chuck it and move on.

Assuming that I can’t simply re-rim the wheel, what hub, rim and spoke combination would you build for a light but strong rear for a heavy rider?

No I won't take on such a customer. Either I'd have to lie or I'd have to persuade you to sacrifice durability.

I’m leaning towards a Hope hub (RS4?), an H Plus Son Archetype Road Rim and Sapim or similar aero-spokes; were ‘team-think’ to suggest, I’d risk a 28 spoke count 2-cross, instead of my ‘usual’ 32 spoke 3-cross.

All ideas gratefully received.

Thank you.

Nothing wrong with the Hope hub, it's pretty, loud and proud to be British. If that sort of thing ticks it off for you. Any Shimano, Campag or made-in Taiwan hub will also work. Durability is not so much in the hub as in the build itself and the design. By design, I mean spec'ing of the spoke count and cross no.

Your ideal design is 32 @3X. Nothing else will be durable and reliable.

By aero spokes I suppose you mean bladed spokes. There's nothing wrong with those other than cost and finger cuts when you wash them. The brand of spoke is irrelevant, but the style is important. Butted is the only way to guarantee reliability.

 

[oldcarltonfan]

Thanks Yellow Saddle,

Yes, I meant bladed, my mistake. My default build is 32 x 3-cross as I'm no lightweight. I also normally build with butted spokes. I'm fishing for ideas in case someone has a better idea, but thank you for confirming that maybe 32 x 3-cross is popular for a reason!

 

[Spoked Wheels]

I’m leaning towards a Hope hub (RS4?), an H Plus Son Archetype Road Rim and Sapim or similar aero-spokes; were ‘team-think’ to suggest, I’d risk a 28 spoke count 2-cross, instead of my ‘usual’ 32 spoke 3-cross.

Those are very good hubs and excellent rims and you won't be splitting that rim at the nipple , I'd definitely advise you to go 32 3X too.

 

[oldcarltonfan]

Thanks Spoked Wheels,

I'm picking up a theme here, 32 x 3-cross or lose (a lot of) weight! Thanks for the comment about the hub/rim combo, I've put 1000's of miles on Hope hubs with no problems, so keen to try them again.

 

[Globalti]

I'm about to rebuild my worn-out Ksyrium SL using an Elite rim, which is the same rim but silver and black not black and I can tell you that you will have very great difficulty in finding even an Elite rim and you will need 20 new spokes.

I know It's a daft proprietary system but I'm loathe to throw away a perfectly good hub and hate being forced to buy new if the old can be overhauled.

 

[oldcarltonfan]

Thanks Globalti,

My hub is also in excellent condition. I think I'll hang the wheel on the wall in the shed and in slow time look for a rim and spokes, with the aim of eventually rebuilding it for a much lighter friend. I remember how hard it was for the LBS to source spokes last time they rebuilt it; that was one of the reasons why I learnt to build my own wheels (and for the enjoyment).

 

[Gravity Aided]

Jobst Brandts' book The Bicycle Wheel, walks you through the process, along with a bit of physics about spoked wheels.

 

[oldcarltonfan]

Thank you to all of you for the useful advice. I now have a plan (and a book to find).

32 x 3 cross it will be.

 

[Gravity Aided]

Amazon, best at it's original job.
https://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Whee...-1&keywords=the+bicycle+wheel+by+jobst+brandt

 

[Spoked Wheels]

I'm about to rebuild my worn-out Ksyrium SL using an Elite rim, which is the same rim but silver and black not black and I can tell you that you will have very great difficulty in finding even an Elite rim and you will need 20 new spokes.

I know It's a daft proprietary system but I'm loathe to throw away a perfectly good hub and hate being forced to buy new if the old can be overhauled.

If the rim has the same ERD than the old rim then you can reuse the old spokes. I did such job for a customer with a few of his wheels, he imported 3 rims from the USA and got a bunch of second hand spokes from ebay for me to sort out another of his wheels which I did but without warranty on spoke durability.

From memory, the Elite rims are pretty light but ever so firm for such a small weight. The spokes are set at a pretty high tension too, my Shimano spoke tension reading tool gives a rather odd reading on those spokes so to follow Mavic recommended tension I use a deviice to tension a single spoke to the desire tension specification and read it with the Shimano T-1 then I have a pretty good idea what reading on the T-1 I'm aiming at.... you might want to try to read the tension on a good wheel first to have an idea where you want to get to.

 

[Globalti]

If the rim has the same ERD than the old rim then you can reuse the old spokes. I did such job for a customer with a few of his wheels, he imported 3 rims from the USA and got a bunch of second hand spokes from ebay for me to sort out another of his wheels which I did but without warranty on spoke durability.

From memory, the Elite rims are pretty light but ever so firm for such a small weight. The spokes are set at a pretty high tension too, my Shimano spoke tension reading tool gives a rather odd reading on those spokes so to follow Mavic recommended tension I use a deviice to tension a single spoke to the desire tension specification and read it with the Shimano T-1 then I have a pretty good idea what reading on the T-1 I'm aiming at.... you might want to try to read the tension on a good wheel first to have an idea where you want to get to.

You can't re-use these Mavic spokes because the nipples rust to the spokes after exposure to salty water and the nipples also stick solid in the rim, either thanks to oxidation or thanks to being assembled with a thread lock. When you try to unscrew them the nipples just disintegrate like a rotten tooth.

Good idea about checking the tension on the old wheel though, I'll do that before I cut out the old spokes. I'm seeing the consultant on Friday and having the first x-ray and if he confirms that the collar bone is healing it's full speed ahead on sorting the wheel and getting back to fitness.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

You can't re-use these Mavic spokes because the nipples rust to the spokes after exposure to salty water and the nipples also stick solid in the rim, either thanks to oxidation or thanks to being assembled with a thread lock. When you try to unscrew them the nipples just disintegrate like a rotten tooth.

I see, maybe different spokes/nipples but I had to remove and reuse the spokes on two wheels and I think I lost a couple of spokes overall that were just too tight to undo. I did use two types of spoke keys though, a long spanner made by shimano for those extra tight nipples and a regular Mavic round metal spanner (there's a plastic round spanner that is simply rubbish)

Good idea about checking the tension on the old wheel though, I'll do that before I cut out the old spokes. I'm seeing the consultant on Friday and having the first x-ray and if he confirms that the collar bone is healing it's full speed ahead on sorting the wheel and getting back to fitness

Good luck with that...

 

[Gravity Aided]

GWS, @Globalti !

 

[rogerzilla]

At 87kg, I'd consider 36 spokes, at least at the rear (which is challenged by narrow flange spacing and unequal tension from side to side, as well as carrying more of your weight). The rim is slightly better supported along its length, and fewer spokes will go slack at any one time. It's always better to have more thin spokes than fewer chunky spokes.