A question of etiquette/traffic law ...

[Rafters]

Hi all,

I had a traffic related disagreement with a fellow commuter the other day and would be interested in the wisdom of the crowd/forum.

Scenario: A fellow cyclist is sat at a zebra crossing in front of a car while pedestrians cross. I come up the left hand side of the car behind another cyclist who darts through the middle of the group of pedestrians. I don't follow but "slow approach" the zebra crossing and as the last pedestrian passes me (but isn't off the crossing) I cross behind her.

The cyclist who was sat in front of the car comes alongside me and says "It's not so hard to wait is it?" to which I replied "I did" to which he replied ....I don't know because he sped off in a huff. I think he felt I pressured the pedestrian to hurry across but I frequently "slow approach" (when appropriate) so I have momentum to pull away again.

Cycling in London often leads to "differences of opinion" that I brush off within seconds but for some reason this one bothered me. So the question is, am I an impatient lunatic or am I the cycling Ghandi? You decide!

 

[Globalti]

I bet the Highway Code says that drivers AND cyclists must wait until the crossing is clear before they proceed.

 

[Norm]

Waiting until pedestrians have cleared the crossing is not, IIRC, a legal requirement but using the crossing with pedestrians on it is generally considered, as the OP suggests, to be hassling them.

I know that I got my fortune told by a copper when I was at school (a million years ago!) for crossing behind pedestrians and I never really questioned his understanding of the law until it came up here a few months ago.

 

[Gary E]

When I'm on my bike I pretty much apply exactly the same rules as when I'm driving which means waiting until crossings are clear, obeying red lights and not riding on the pavement etc.

The very fact that one person saw your actions as impolite should be reason enough to hold back.

There are enough poor cyclists (and I'm not suggesting that you're one for a second here btw) out there and people tend to tar us all with the same brush.

Good manners cost nothing and often reap their own rewards

 

[Bman]

I wont move onto the crossing until the all the pedestrians have left it.

I sometimes do the Slow Approach thing though (If I approach when pedestrians are already on the corssing). Both to prevent me having to unclip/trackstand and to try and maintain momentum.

However, if there are pedestrians waiting to use the crossing, I will stop.

 

[gaz]

You would be a number 1 silly cyclist
NOT

 

[Boris Bajic]

London does seem to have its own rules on occasion and there is a certain amont of "He crossed anyway, so I did" about some of the unusual approaches one sees to red lights, pedestrian crossings, kerbs and similar.

Nonetheless, I was taught not to enter a crossing (by bicycle, car or motorbike) until any pedestrian had reached the pavement; this irrespective of the colour of lamp illuminated if it was a controlled crossing.

I cycle like a complete arse in London and fully deserve the splatting I have been asking for for years... but I simply would not go onto a pedestrian crossing until all the crossers had crossed. There is a question of courtesy. There is also the matter that for some pedestrians a bicycle might seem as intimidating as a 38-tonne artic would to you and me.

The argument that it's OK to do so gently runs out of puff pretty quickly. Crossing is crossing. I'm not comfortable telling other road users where they went wrong (it feels a little pompous and I'm told I'm pompous enough) but the patient cyclist who put you right was right. In my humble opinion.

 

[Glow worm]

Always wait for peds to reach the kerb- the guy was right IMO, it's not really a problem to wait a few extra seconds.

 

[lulubel]

This is really fascinating. Everyone (including the pedestrians) would wonder what was wrong with you if you waited for them to reach the kerb here.

 

[lulubel]

It is a shame the degree to which we have become accepting of poor standards.

To coin a much-used phrase: "This is Spain."

Very different approximations of rules apply.

 

[subaqua]

It is a shame the degree to which we have become accepting of poor standards.

yup even the police don't care as long as the car/cycle doesn't hit them. I could trawl the net for the relevant wording from the puffin pelican and zebra crosing regs but its not worth the aggro you get from people who think they are above the law and what the law says. but with no enforcement its unlikely to ever get dealt with.

 

[Norm]

It is a shame the degree to which we have become accepting of poor standards.

Wow. That's a pretty harsh comment on something which is nothing more than a cultural difference.

Sometimes, things happen different once you cross the water. It's not necessarily right or wrong, just different.

yup even the police don't care as long as the car/cycle doesn't hit them. I could trawl the net for the relevant wording from the puffin pelican and zebra crosing regs but its not worth the aggro you get from people who think they are above the law and what the law says. but with no enforcement its unlikely to ever get dealt with.

If you have any pointers, subaqua, I'd appreciate it. As I said above, I was told by a copper about 30 years ago that vehicles had to wait until the crossing was clear but there was a thread on here recently which made me look into the actual regulations and I couldn't see anything, just that pedestrians had right of way and (I can't remember the exact wording but it was something like) shouldn't be intimidated.

 

[summerdays]

I thought it was the law that you should wait until the pedestrian had reached the other side if there is no traffic island in the middle, or the island if there is one. That is my expectation no matter what mode of transportation I'm using, don't always get it as a pedestrian. If you are crossing with young children it is definitely unnerving to have a car start moving towards the crossing whilst you are still on it. Luckily mine are past that stage now.

 

[simon.r]

Scenario: A fellow cyclist is sat at a zebra crossing in front of a car while pedestrians cross. I come up the left hand side of the car behind another cyclist who darts through the middle of the group of pedestrians. I don't follow but "slow approach" the zebra crossing and as the last pedestrian passes me (but isn't off the crossing) I cross behind her.

I tend to do that (cross behind peds who are nearly clear of the crossing), although I wait 'til they're fully clear of the crossing if the ped concerned is a little old lady / child / pushing a pushchair and I think they may find it intimidating if I pass fairly close to them.

Highway Code isn't clear, it just says "you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing". Which doesn't answer the point in the OP.

 

[subaqua]

Wow. That's a pretty harsh comment on something which is nothing more than a cultural difference.

Sometimes, things happen different once you cross the water. It's not necessarily right or wrong, just different.


If you have any pointers, subaqua, I'd appreciate it. As I said above, I was told by a copper about 30 years ago that vehicles had to wait until the crossing was clear but there was a thread on here recently which made me look into the actual regulations and I couldn't see anything, just that pedestrians had right of way and (I can't remember the exact wording but it was something like) shouldn't be intimidated.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/regulation/25/made
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/regulation/3/made
195

Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing

• look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
• you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
• allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
• do not wave or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
• be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing

A zebra crossing with a central island is two separate crossings (see Rule 20).
[Law ZPPPCRGD reg 25]


I failed my 1st driving test in 1990 as i went behind a pedestrian when they were over into the opposite carriageway on a full size crossing. I queried the examiner and stated the give precedence bit . he replied that that means waiting until they have finished crossing as they could turn around part way across. the advice is still the same today from ADIs