A return to rim brakes and surprised how poor they are

[Ridgeway]

What pads are you using? Some are a lot better than others wet or dry!

Another acid test will be the new wheels and new pads (Swisstop) in a week or 2

 

[Gunk]

All my road bikes have rim brakes but my MTB has hydraulic disk brakes (Sram Level TLM) and in comparison they are amazing, really powerful compared with rim brakes.

 

[roley poley]

The splosh of your rim braked wheels through a mud filled puddle ..the scuffing scrubbing sound of a grinding paste being formed as the levers are squeezed always makes me wince ...but if you keep their contact surfaces clean and adjusted they are fine ....shame they wear your rims down though

 

[Gunk]

Another acid test will be the new wheels and new pads (Swisstop) in a week or 2

I’ve just fitted some SwissStop shoes and I’ve been impressed with them. A big improvement over basic Shimano pads.

 

[PapaZita]

I‘ve one bike with DA 9000 rim brakes (Kool Stop Salmon, Stan‘s rims), and another with SRAM Red HRD discs. In the wet there’s no doubt that the discs are better (initial bite, modulation, lack of grindy noises). In the dry they’re much closer, and I think I marginally prefer the rim brakes. They need a little more force at the lever, but have a bite and positive feel that inspires confidence.

Ultimately, stopping distance should be limited by tyres and centre of gravity. In the dry, either set of brakes is more than good enough that the underlying technology is not the limiting factor. People talk of locking wheels, endos, etc. These are generally bad things, and it’s possible that the light action and modulation of disc brakes allow such perilous situations to be more easily avoided. However, one also needs some feedback to know when to modulate. The SRAM hydraulic brakes have rather dead feeling levers, whereas I believe the rim brakes allow me to feel what’s going on with my finger tips. I prefer that.

 

[mjr]

Disc brakes doesn't appear to offer any performance advantage in the dry on a road bike. Though the latest hydraulic disc brakes road bikes are under 7kgs and some under 6kgs, so if there is no weight penalty why not have better wet performance?

View: https://youtu.be/t0hKMgUEku4

Because fiddlier setup, more difficult diagnostics, slower wheel changes and that infernal metallic whine any time they get shoot on the pads, which is pretty much every wet ride in England.

 

[mjr]

I believe they are correctly set up:

• Pads used (not new) and are only say 25% worn, decent set of SRAM pads
• Callipers well centred
• Wheels are alloy, super true and have good brake tracks
• Cables are new on both front and rear

I'll try to compare to them to a ride buddy once the club kicks off again, maybe there is something not right and that they could indeed stop as well as discs but i have something set up wrong

I don't remember anyone ever recommending SRAM pads. Chains yes. I didn't even know they made caliper pads.

Lovely about the centering and fresh cable, but how far from the rim are the pads and are the levers compatible with the caliper?

 

[Ridgeway]

I don't remember anyone ever recommending SRAM pads. Chains yes. I didn't even know they made caliper pads.

Lovely about the centering and fresh cable, but how far from the rim are the pads and are the levers compatible with the caliper?

They callipers and levers are the same, Campag SR. The pads are set at approx 2mm from the rims so as soon as you touch the lever you get some braking.

Maybe you've hit on a good point about the SRAM pads and perhaps some others would perform better, it's clear that most here seem to be getting good stopping with their rim brake set up. Having gone through my set up and thinking it should perform well it was that surprise when i came to a stop and realised i needed another 20-25m vs my other bike. I'll see how it changes when i swap over rims and pads very soon

 

[rogerzilla]

I only have two bikes that sometimes feel underbraked. The tourer, which can be hard to stop in the wet with a full load on (cantilevers) and my commuting fixie, again in the wet (long-reach centrepull, front only). None of the others could use any more power.

 

[Blue Hills]

I find Cantis quite often problematical, especially with a big load.
V brakes just fine and dandy - all the stopping I need - only for flat bars though.
There are things called miniVs for drop bar bikes I think but I have no experience of them.

 

[Drago]

I believe they are correctly set up:

• Pads used (not new) and are only say 25% worn, decent set of SRAM pads
• Callipers well centred
• Wheels are alloy, super true and have good brake tracks
• Cables are new on both front and rear

I'll try to compare to them to a ride buddy once the club kicks off again, maybe there is something not right and that they could indeed stop as well as discs but i have something set up wrong

Clearly something isn't optimum if theyre not pulling you up very sharply.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Because fiddlier setup, more difficult diagnostics, slower wheel changes and that infernal metallic whine any time they get shoot on the pads, which is pretty much every wet ride in England.

I don’t know where you get slower wheel changes from. You drop the wheel in and out like a good un rather than needing to undo a QR brake release like with rim brakes. You also don’t get that horrible grinding noise of rim brakes.

 

[T4tomo]

I find Cantis quite often problematical, especially with a big load.
V brakes just fine and dandy - all the stopping I need - only for flat bars though.
There are things called miniVs for drop bar bikes I think but I have no experience of them.

Mini V's are the work of the devil, a lazy compromise for those that can't set up Canti's, but want fat tyres on a drop bar bike. They can be a bit of fiddle to set up, I accept that, but are great once you understand how to get it right.

Canti brakes (and road calipers) have better mechanical advantage than V brakes, not that V-brakes aren't fine for MTBs etc where the speeds are lower.
Direct pull V brakes came about because of the difficulty of fitting Canti's to suspension forks, they made a very good compromise, almost as effective, easier to set up and got around the suspension issue, and the issue of needed a "safety catcher" for the old style canti's to prevent the yoke cable snagging the tyre if the main cable snapped.

A good modern Canti is a thing of beauty, the yoke cable issue has been solved, they have a greater mud clearance for CX / offroad stuff than mini and regular V's. The other criticism aimed at canti's - fork judder - is easily solved by using an up hanger off the fork bridge rather than a stem mount of old.

 

[T4tomo]

I don’t know where you get slower wheel changes from. You drop the wheel in and out like a good un rather than needing to undo a QR brake release like with rim brakes. You also don’t get that horrible grinding noise of rim brakes.

You have to undo a thru axle which takes longer that a QR. Team cars now seem to prefer a full bike change and sort out the wheel at their leisure, rather than undo a Thu axle at the side of the road.

The bigger issue for Pro's is the neutral service bike doesn't carry disc wheels despite the majority of pro teams now using them. I've seen a few inopportune punctures cost time and are chances of (stage or outright) wins for guys running discs, where a quick wheel change off the service bike would have allowed them to stay in the breakaway group.

 

[FrankCrank]

Who needs brakes anyway - all they do is slow you down