A Worrying & Serious Near Incident!

[Red Light]

Look guys, stop making this a personal attack on me.

I am opening this up for debate. I have no doubt in my mind that there is not one amongst you who would have travelled round that bend at 20 mph. So lets cut to the chase and debate the issue rather than making it about me.

The issue is, what do we need to do to make it safe for cyclists and motorists alike. Should we be enforcing a speed limit around a bend that is much slower than we originally thought was correct?

I don't have an issue with discussing the possible solutions.

As suggested, when you are next out in the car and perhaps on roads like I have shown, that you use on a regular basis, check and be honest with yourself, did you travel around the bend at a speed that could avoid ANY possible eventuality?

Best regards

Chris

But it is about you and the solution is to make it clear to motorists that they should not go hurtling round blind bends expecting it to be clear. There could be anything round the bend from a tractor to a cow in the road to a cyclist. The only solutions to the problem you posed is to drive more slowly or ban cyclists, tractors, milk floats and other slower vehicles from the roads. And the latter is not an acceptable solution.

 

[G2EWS]

But it is about you and the solution is to make it clear to motorists that they should not go hurtling round blind bends expecting it to be clear. There could be anything round the bend from a tractor to a cow in the road to a cyclist. The only solutions to the problem you posed is to drive more slowly or ban cyclists, tractors, milk floats and other slower vehicles from the roads. And the latter is not an acceptable solution.

OK Red Light, if you say so. I give in trying to have a decent debate.

Regards

Chris

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

I think it's the habit these days to not look far enough ahead. I was talking to my better half's son this weekend and he was telling me how his motorbike instructor drilled a 'scanning routine' into him. Look in the far distance, look mid distance, look close etc. It stuck in my mind and I've found myself questioning how much of a scan routine myself and most drivers have in these days of jams and tailgaters.

They say you learn to drive after your test. Having a partner who's an ambulance driver, then watching her son through bike and car instruction has made me think a lot more about what I haven't learnt in 24 years on the road.

My thought for the day on the OP is that in that situation I hoped my 'far scan' would have seen the cyclists enter the corner. It's no perfect world, there's plenty to get in the line of sight, but it's another idea.

 

[400bhp]

Chris - welcome to the world of cycle/car ownership.

Cycling has clearly made you look in retrospectively at how you drive and that can only be a good thing.

I like these threads - people being honest.

You've Manned Up sir

Look up vanishing point - that's the bit you are missing from your driving.

 

[400bhp]

Oh, and ignore the evangelists.

 

[G2EWS]

I think it's the habit these days to not look far enough ahead. I was talking to my better half's son this weekend and he was telling me how his motorbike instructor drilled a 'scanning routine' into him. Look in the far distance, look mid distance, look close etc. It stuck in my mind and I've found myself questioning how much of a scan routine myself and most drivers have in these days of jams and tailgaters.

They say you learn to drive after your test. Having a partner who's an ambulance driver, then watching her son through bike and car instruction has made me think a lot more about what I haven't learnt in 24 years on the road.

My thought for the day on the OP is that in that situation I hoped my 'far scan' would have seen the cyclists enter the corner. It's no perfect world, there's plenty to get in the line of sight, but it's another idea.

Hi Nigel,

Interesting and very good points.

Sadly, no, the cyclist was round the corner when I arrived.

I naturally scan the road all round. Part of being as experienced as I am. But as I mentioned unless I slowed down on a bend that is normally taken at 50 - 60 mph by every road user I have ever seen to about 20 mph, if the cyclist was 10 M further back I don't think there would have been a chance of not hitting her. As I say, it questions what speed we should be driving around a bend. If everyone I have ever seen goes round it at 50 - 60 mph and I have used the road a lot, then what is going wrong? Lack of foresight perhaps? But by everyone? Even those who SAY they slow down but I doubt they do.

I didn't say earlier, but on my return along the same road and at the top of the hill I spotted a broken small mirror in the road. Both cyclists had rear view mirrors! I wonder if the worst really did happen? I do so hope not.

Best regards

Chris

 

[G2EWS]

Chris - welcome to the world of cycle/car ownership.

Cycling has clearly made you look in retrospectively at how you drive and that can only be a good thing.

I like these threads - people being honest.

You've Manned Up sir

Look up vanishing point - that's the bit you are missing from your driving.

Hi 400bhp,

Thanks for the comments. I am aware of vanishing point and that is what surprises me as it deemed this bend could be taken at higher speeds than 20 mph. Worrying for sure!

Best regards

Chris

 

[Red Light]

OK Red Light, if you say so. I give in trying to have a decent debate.

Regards

Chris

So what is your solution? Absent widening country lanes I can't see any options other than driving round the bend more slowly or removing the cyclist from the road. And the latter for me is unacceptable. Can you see an option I've missed?

 

[Paul_L]

I think I will contact the Police and discuss this with them as there has to be an answer. If the Police had travelled around this bend at the 'safe' maximum speed, it would have been 60 mph by their own guidelines. If they had been in a chase situation it would have been considerably faster than that!

I'm confused by this. I'm assuming the road is NSL, i.e. limit is 60mph? So on a section of the road with blind bends, how come the "safe maximum speed" is the same as the speed limit for the road per se?

And in a police chase, if plod were driving at speeds >60mph then they would be on blues and twos?

 

[400bhp]

I think he's getting confused with the maximum permitted speed and a safe speed.

Many people make this mistake unfortunately.

 

[Fnaar]

The way I read it, the cyclists were simply cycling, and couldn't be expected to go faster, slower, or be anywhere else, so the responsibility therefore lies with the car driver, I'd say. Everyone on the road, walking, cycling, or in whatever vehicle, should expect the unexpected, and take appropriate precautions.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

It's a tricky one G2EWS, though i am glad everything worked out okay on this occasion.
Is it realistic to expect ALL drivers to slow down to 20-30mph on blind bends? You could argue yes. Certainly would prefer it as a cyclist, but as a realist i would suggest it's not likely. As a cyclist i suggest, like it or not, cycling on the road brings with it risks. Being struck by a car from behind is very much one of them. All you can do is ride best you can to keep yourself safe and hope the other road users are going to be safe also.
How many people have seen a few slow moving cars in front of a long que of traffic. Clearly holding everyone else up but in their minds they are travelling at a safe pace. ??
Right or wrong this encourages risky overtaking and needless crashes. I see this all too often and is one of the main reasons people die on busy 60mph roads such as the A9.
So again G2EWS. It's a tricky one with no easy answer. You could forget what everyone else does and treat every corner as if there may be a cyclist just around that blind corner. Cos you never know.

 

[Night Train]

I have no doubt in my mind that there is not one amongst you who would have travelled round that bend at 20 mph. So lets cut to the chase and debate the issue rather than making it about me.

I do.

I was taught to do that.

I still do that. Though I don't claim a particular speed would be safe, just any speed that is slow enough to be safe.

OK, not a personal attack on you, you learned something today about your driving and the road you were on. That is a good and positive thing, sadly not every driver would have stopped to think about it as you did. Most would have blamed the cyclist, the sun, the road designer, in fact nearly anyone and anything else other then question if they could have done any different. So you are doing well so far.

Anyway, The solution is, as has been said, to only drive as far as you can see to be your safe stopping distance. If you can only see 10m around a blind corner then your speed should allow you to come to a stop within 10m given the road conditions, even if that is less then walking speed.

I will happily blast around country lanes at the speed limit but I will also slow to a crawl if the next bend or junction is blind. This is not because I am a cyclist but because I learned, when I learned to drive, that sometimes there is something around the corner that could either kill me or be killed by me if I wasn't able to stop in time.

OK, my anecdote.

I was driving on a winding lane in mid Wales, a few years ago, and approaching a bend to the right. It was a blind bend that had many chevrons on it and high hedges on both sides. I think I was down to about 10-15mph and aiming for walking speed until I could see further.
As I got to the start of the bend an articulated lorry came into view coming towards me. The lorry was on the other side of the road and well clear of me but the overhanging front end of the oversize load it was carrying, as it rounded the bend, swept over the roof of my car causing me to instinctively duck. I came to a dead stop very quickly as I was no longer able to look above the dash. Had I been driving a taller vehicle, a 4x4 or a van, the load would have hit my vehicle.
If I had been driving faster then I wouldn't have been able to duck and stop safely.

Annoyingly the escort vehicle carrying the sign that said 'Caution, oversize load following' was following behind the lorry it should have been in front of.


Anyway, good for thinking about the incident and wanting to figure out how to make your driving safer in future.

 

[Canrider]

That is a good and positive thing, sadly not every driver would have stopped to think about it as you did.

And perhaps more importantly, wouldn't have had the sand to come on here and tell the rest of us about it!

 

[Canrider]

Is there a problem with the general rule of being able to stop before you reach as far as you can see at any given moment?

Not generally, however, I can think of a couple places near here where that rule means you effectively would have to stop dead and wait for the man with the red flag to walk ahead of you.