A Worrying & Serious Near Incident!

[G2EWS]

Hi All,

Since being a born again cyclist once again I have been enjoying my commutes and weekend rides when I get the chance.

Having cycled into the office today, I had to pop down to Fordingbridge from my office in Market Lavington. So I took the Land Rover which my Wife had driven to work.

I went from Market Lavington into West Lavington and turned left (South) towards Salisbury on the A360. As you come out of West Lavington and into the unrestricted 60 mph zone you approach a left hand bend:

West Lavington, Wiltshire SN10

I drove round this bend at about 45 mph which in my opinion was a sensible speed.

As I got round, in front of me and riding sensibly and close to the side in secondary position was one of two cyclists. The 2nd being about 10 - 15 M further on.

I reacted very quickly and slammed on the brakes allowing the ABS to take over. I missed the Woman by no more than 1 M!

If she had been 10 M further back, there is no question in my mind that I would have hit her. Swerving was not an option, nor overtaking as the road is narrow and there was a stream of vehicles coming the other way.

For the rest of my journey and return I pondered over what I might have done differently or indeed the cyclist could have done to make her life safer.

As I say, she was cycling well and up a steep hill. No undue wobble and quite obviously in the correct gear as was her male partner.

I have travelled that road faster and considered myself to be driving safely. Indeed, if I had been in my Wife's BMW 6 series, I would almost certainly have been travelling nearer to 60 mph.

As far as I can see the only quantifiable change would be for me to have been travelling around the bend at no more than 30 mph and possibly slower. But how practical could it be to travel on roads like this and slow down to 30 mph or slower for every bend? It just would not work.

I remember in the 70's an advert of a car travelling around country lanes and around every bend there was a space ship on the middle of the road. They then re run the same route and instead of a spaceship they had a herd of cows, a broken down car and a cyclist.

It has certainly got me thinking of how we as motorists and cyclists should travel on our roads!

Best regards

Chris

 

[MrJamie]

I think it'll come down to you only driving as fast as you can see is safe ahead of you, but I dont really think anyone does that on a twisty lane. I suspect if you parked a tractor in said blind spot, it wouldnt take very long before someone crashed into it. I think on a tight bend theres also a tendency to assume its clear for as far as you can see half the lane is empty ie. no vehicles.

From the cyclist perspective if I do end up on a road like that, I tend to hang out in primary as late as possible so im visable as far back as possible, then really hug the gutter once in the blind spot. No idea if thats the best idea, but theres usually space for a close pass if it comes to it.

 

[G2EWS]

Hi Jamie,

Having been taught by the man who wrote the Police chase manual to drive round a bend, I can confirm that I was well within the 'safe' speed for the bend.

But I think you are right, any vehicle that has stopped becomes a danger. If you broke down on a bend, the first and safe thing you would surely do, is let oncoming motorists know by alerting them before the bend.

A conundrum for sure!

Regards

Chris

 

[ColinJ]

It is quite simple - you were driving too fast!

What about a rider on a horse, or a vehicle that has only just broken down, or a cyclist that has hit a pothole and fallen off ...?

I knew somebody who killed a grandfather and grandson who were standing in the road round a bend like that. He was indignant to have lost his license and said it was their fault because "they shouldn't have been standing there"!

As far as I can see the only quantifiable change would be for me to have been travelling around the bend at no more than 30 mph and possibly slower. But how practical could it be to travel on roads like this and slow down to 30 mph or slower for every bend? It just would not work.

Of course "it would work", you would just average (say) 52.7 mph for your journey instead of 56.9!

 

[Pale Rider]

You missed the lass, so all is well.
But it does sound as if you were driving too fast around a 'blind' bend.
I have to regularly negotiate a long, sharp lefthander on a country road.
Nothing for it but to slow right down and lean to the right in a largely futile attempt to see further around the corner.

 

[fenlandpsychocyclist]

I absolutely hate cycling along roads with "blind corners", with hedgerows/buildings either side.
One of the worst local roads to me is the old march to wisbech road. Proper rat run with speeds up
to 80mph quite feasible.

Here's a scenario which could happen:

A cyclist is travelling round a left bend, shielded from the view of a motorist approaching behind.
The motorist suddenly finds a cyclist in the way half way round the corner.
The motorist moves wants to move across, but can't as there's a car in the oncoming lane.
The motorist brakes hard.
The back end of their vehicle swings around as the roads are *wet*.
Bang!
The cyclist stops, totally unharmed, and phones 999, whilst looking at the wreckage of two cars.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Chris,

Back in the 70's when I was just 16 and on my funky moped on the way back from my girlfriends was a sharp left hand bend. I would go round it at 20 miles an hour but could never stay on my side of the road. I once spoke to my dad about it, his reply was 'You are going too fast' I argued the point how could I being going too fast I was only going 20. Nearly 40 years later I agree with him, if I couldn't go round the corner & stay my side of the road I was going too fast.

So I put it to you, if you couldn't go round the corner & not run over the cyclist that was laid in the road, stop before you hit the tractor & trailer stopped in the road, or hit the car that had just crashed you were going too fast.

Alan...

 

[mattobrien]

I was taught (not by my driving instructor, or not at least the one that taught me to pass my test) that you can drive as far as you can see. By that, you can go as fast as see that you can safely stop in.

Yes that means sometimes slowing down for corners and driving appropriate to conditions. Driving out in the country there can be anything from tractors to livestock.

 

[sidevalve]

Easy to bang on about "you were going too fast" and maybe you were but in practice [and in the real world] EVERYBODY is guilty of going too fast sometimes and yes that includes cyclists.

 

[G2EWS]

I used to travel about 1,000 miles a week and hate to say it, but the only accidents that have happened are when 1. A car pulled out on me and he accepted blame and 2. A car rammed me and was spotted by the Police who prosecuted him for dangerous driving.

I consider myself a safe driver and follow, as I say the Police's own safety guides about how to drive around a bend. Bit complicated to explain here, but I was well under the safe limit for this bend.

If you consider any bend you go round and tackle it to the best of your ability with absolute safety in mind, then you will find that most need to be negotiated to avoid the possibility of something in the road at a speed that is likely to be under 20 mph. Check it out next time you are driving on a road like I have shown you above. You will see what I mean. Then seriously question yourself, did I tackle that bend correctly for 'any' incident that may have taken place?

Nobody does this, unless they are travelling at 20 mph all the time. So again, I wonder what the solution is? Should we be forced to slow down to 20 mph on every bend?

Average speed would go down considerably slower than what you suggest Colin.

I am not saying that your suggestions are wrong, but question the practicality of following it through. I have never in many hundreds of thousands of miles of driving seen anyone driving like this so doubt that it actually happens.

Colin, the statement regarding the person who killed those poor people is of course a pathetic excuse from the driver.

I think I will contact the Police and discuss this with them as there has to be an answer. If the Police had travelled around this bend at the 'safe' maximum speed, it would have been 60 mph by their own guidelines. If they had been in a chase situation it would have been considerably faster than that!

A couple of years ago I was driving to Swindon and as I approached a bend I found a Woman broken down in totally the wrong place. It was a suicide - by accident - waiting to happen. I contacted the Police straight away. I have never seen a car travel that bend at 10 mph, which was the only speed you should travel at to have avoided an accident. I had just pulled away having stopped, hence being able to stop safely.

Regards

Chris

 

[G2EWS]

Can you explain more fully why this would be a bad thing?

I didn't say it was a bad thing, just suggested that it maybe the only solution. How we enforce it is another debate of course!

Regards

Chris

 

[Red Light]

Having been taught by the man who wrote the Police chase manual to drive round a bend, I can confirm that I was well within the 'safe' speed for the bend.

His name wasn't Gerard Sharratt was it?

Lucky for you it wasn't a tractor round the corner or you would have learnt the wisdom of the advice of always driving so you can stop within the distance you can see to be clear.

 

[G2EWS]

Look guys, stop making this a personal attack on me.

I am opening this up for debate. I have no doubt in my mind that there is not one amongst you who would have travelled round that bend at 20 mph. So lets cut to the chase and debate the issue rather than making it about me.

The issue is, what do we need to do to make it safe for cyclists and motorists alike. Should we be enforcing a speed limit around a bend that is much slower than we originally thought was correct?

I don't have an issue with discussing the possible solutions.

As suggested, when you are next out in the car and perhaps on roads like I have shown, that you use on a regular basis, check and be honest with yourself, did you travel around the bend at a speed that could avoid ANY possible eventuality?

Best regards

Chris

 

[Hip Priest]

It shouldn't be too difficult to put a sign up saying 'Blind Bend - Do not exceed x mph'.

 

[MrJamie]

I don't think people are even taught to only drive as far as they can safely see, plenty of cyclists ride way over what's safe for certain roads too, Strava makes that pretty clear If you slowed right down for tight bends you'd probably become the obstacle and get hit from behind by someone else who didnt slow

A friend of mine said that he either failed or got marked down on his driving test (i forget which, it would be like 12-15 years ago now) for slowing down to about 40mph on this twisty bit of 60mph NSL road: http://goo.gl/maps/076FJ