Accelerated chain wear

[silva]

What would have the biggest impact on a chains life, worn off particles from the chain itself or foreign (sprockets and road and air dust) particles?
A chain is steel, a sprocket is (mostly) aluminium. Worn off particles usually corrode. So oxides of these. Which oxide is hardest (and thus inflict more wear), alu or steel?
There are many indications that external particles are by far the biggest cause of accelerated wear.
A chain covered with contaminated oil, or in a less degree (since it dries up) water quickly ends a drivetrain life.
Water corrodes steel. Ironoxide occupies a bigger space and exposes even more metal so exponential process.
Same for salt, especially dissolved in water, so that it can sneak in narrow places.

On the other hand, the by far most influencing drivetrain part on its life is the chain. Since it gets longer under tension due to worn off contact material, and outnumbers the teeth of the sprockets and especially steel against aluminium, it 'eats' a sprocket fast (so there is a good case for a steel chainring). But this means that alot material of the chain (any1 an idea about the weight percent?) gets lost.
Now, apparently this is not seen as the biggest problem, since they produce motorcycle chains with sealing rings that prevent foreign particles to enter the contact areas, but at the same time also block the exit for worn off particles from the chain links itself, that then stay there till the chains life end.

Any opinions about these pro against con points of view?

 

[Ajax Bay]

Pro what? Cons against what?

 

[confusedcyclist]

Sealed oil-filled systems are renowned for their longevity and low maintenance, but they are also very heavy. Open systems are lighter but need regular maintenance, there's no escaping that. That's the age old trade off. I'm not familiar with it, but this motorcycle system you are referring to (probably) doesn't exist on a bicycle, because friction in the drivetrain isn't a major concern with motors that are powered by millenia's worth of geologically processed hydrocarbons as opposed to lowly human muscle. I think the time spent worrying about how much the grime on your drivetrain weighs, or how many microns rock salt or iron oxide molecules measure could be better spent just cleaning the damn thing

If that all seems too much fuss, well a internal gear hub paired with a belt drive system sounds right up your street.

 

[Stompier]

As above. Chains are consumables.

 

[Pale Rider]

I think a motorcycle chain is constructed slightly differently to a bicycle chain, even though they look similar.

That is why motorcycle chain lube is not, strictly speaking, suitable for bicycle chains.

I'd be curious if anyone knows the precise differences between the two chains.

 

[Stompier]

I'd be curious if anyone knows the precise differences between the two chains.

Functionally, they are identical - except that a motorcycle chain does not have to move laterally across sprockets. Trying to introduce o-ring or x-ring technology into a bicycle chain would - as mentioned earlier - mosts likely introduce an unacceptable level of friction/resistance into the drivetrain.

 

[Pale Rider]

Functionally, they are identical - except that a motorcycle chain does not have to move laterally across sprockets. Trying to introduce o-ring or x-ring technology into a bicycle chain would - as mentioned earlier - mosts likely introduce an unacceptable level of friction/resistance into the drivetrain.

Are these o rings in every link and what are they made of?

Can't quite picture what an x shaped 'ring' would look like.

 

[Stompier]

Are these o rings in every link and what are they made of?

Can't quite picture what an x shaped 'ring' would look like.

o-rings on the end of every pin. Made of rubber, or similar. x-ring is like an o-ring (still an 'o'), but with an x cross section.

 

[Pale Rider]

o-rings on the end of every pin. Made of rubber, or similar. x-ring is like an o-ring (still an 'o'), but with an x cross section.

I can imagine the wrong type of lube would rot the rubber rings, although I bet many motorcyclists clag on whatever oil they have to hand, just as many cyclists do.

 

[Profpointy]

I can imagine the wrong type of lube would rot the rubber rings, although I bet many motorcyclists clag on whatever oil they have to hand, just as many cyclists do.

I used to use car engine oil on my motorbike (as well as on my push bike) chain. The motorbike now has a "scotoiler", an excellent device which dribbles oil a drop a minute onto the chain whilst you ride. I can't see this kind of arrangement being worth the bother on a pedal cycle. You can overthink oiling a pedal cycle chain. I reckon virtually any medium to light oil is going to be fine and since I have a left over half gallon of engine oil the wrong grade for my car, that's what I'll use.

 

[silva]

Pro what? Cons against what?

The same: either you protect the inner locations of the chain (around the mating surfaces) against external particles at the cost of also blocking internal worn off particles to escape, either you do not protect them and thus allow internal worn off particles to escape at the cost of also allowing external particles to get in.

 

[silva]

I think a motorcycle chain is constructed slightly differently to a bicycle chain, even though they look similar.

That is why motorcycle chain lube is not, strictly speaking, suitable for bicycle chains.

I'd be curious if anyone knows the precise differences between the two chains.

I looked it up somewhile ago, there are two motorcycle type chains compatible with bicycles: the 415 is the very same as bicycle so no gain but the 420 is not and compatible, wider, thicker side plates, longer pens so a benefit on the wear subject.
To take into account is that a chain and also a link in it is a serial setup - the entirety is as strong and as wear resistent as its weakest component. Roller wear remains the same, so the difference depends on which part of the entire wear that the roller wear is responsible for.
The 428 also known as 08B chain is not compatible although it looks like it is, but the roller diameter is 8.51mm instead of 7.75mm so if you lay it over your chainrings teeth at some point it ceases to fit. I know - I tried a stainless steel one.

On topic: in my experience external particles are the by far biggest cause of chain wear.
A chainguard would then be a big improvement but since the chainring / frame clearance is too small for one, I had to apply some made-up protections (rubber flaps, covers). Still, they proved as making alot of difference.
Since a month or so, my rear mudguard sat broken at a mount point near the rim brakes. Mud arrived on my chain and after just a couple weeks riding I already noticed wear rate seriously increased. Today I fixed the mudguard along a part of another mounted on the inside of the older.

 

[overmind]

My philosophy is to just wipe the chain with a rag every week and then add some chain oil, spin it around a few times and then wipe off the residue. Clean all the crap off the jockey wheels and the chainset as much as possible. My logic is that I am diluting the grit to oil ratio in the chain when I do this which will reduce chain wear. It's probably rubbish and yellow saddle will be along in 3.2.1... to tell me. It's the most cost effective method I have found in any case. New chains don't cost that much.

About every 3 months run the chain through one of those degreaser bath thingamajigs (in my case white spirit).
Maybe once a year remove the chain and soak it in white spirit and then re-oil it.

I used to replace chains when they got to their stretch limit but I have changed my view and now I just keep riding until the cassette starts slipping and then I change both cassette and chain. It has not worn out yet and it has been several years (it probably helps having 2 or more bikes).

Merry Christmas to all at cycle chat.
🎅🎄

 

[silva]

If that all seems too much fuss, well a internal gear hub paired with a belt drive system sounds right up your street.

Not at all. Just some old and some new problems.
A better approach is fix existing problems and once done, stick with it, and go with a wide turn around anybody that says otherwise.
Old example from my parents: a gas stove, problem, dealer arrived, declared as too much fuss / not repairable, offered a new stove.
Parents decided to ask a second opinion, contacted an after-hours handyman and 40 years later the old stove still does the job.
I decided that I didn't want belt drives, neither gears including internal, for reasons given, period.
14 euro for a chain.
32 euro for a chainring.
16 euro for a cog.
= 62 euro every 15-18 months.
Maintenance = water, soap, car motor oil and DIY. Cheap.

My philosophy is to just wipe the chain with a rag every week and then add some chain oil, spin it around a few times and then wipe off the residue. Clean all the crap off the jockey wheels and the chainset as much as possible. My logic is that I am diluting the grit to oil ratio in the chain when I do this which will reduce chain wear. It's probably rubbish and yellow saddle will be along in 3.2.1... to tell me. It's the most cost effective method I have found in any case. New chains don't cost that much.

About every 3 months run the chain through one of those degreaser bath thingamajigs (in my case white spirit).
Maybe once a year remove the chain and soak it in white spirit and then re-oil it.
View attachment 497786
I used to replace chains when they got to their stretch limit but I have changed my view and now I just keep riding until the cassette starts slipping and then I change both cassette and chain. It has not worn out yet and it has been several years (it probably helps having 2 or more bikes).

Merry Christmas to all at cycle chat.
🎅🎄

That's about the same regime that I arrived at except for water and soap and brushing instead of a bath. My previous chain lasted 18 months and I had to replace it due to the rear cogs teeth becoming too short (never skip, they wear at the edges not at the top). Today I flipped the rear cog due to clearly hooked. Now I hear the ticks when I push back to slow down instead of when I push forward.
The key is to get the grit away, and currently I arrived at a regime of oiling the chain, making the grit mobile, use the bike, the rotations centrifugal force moves oil + grit towards the outside, that I repeatedly wipe off until it stops. Then I keep riding until the chain becomes too dry (typical to see along a few rust spots) then I re-oil. Then I keep riding until the story restarts.

 

[johnnyb47]

How much longer would a meticulously kept chain last than one that just gets oiled once in a while. My limited knowledge would suggest maybe around a thousand miles.
Personally i just use engine oil on mine. When the bike gets a wash i wipe the chain down quickly and reapply some oil. It's a consumable item like tyres and just change it when it hits it limit on the chain checker tool.