Adventures in OCD: Today's Chain Waxing

[rockyroller]

fwiw I use a wax based liquid lube from a dropper bottle. recently gave it a wipe down with some old used mineral spirits & an old black towel

yeah I see I missed some crud but I'm not OCD about it. I'll get it next time

 

[Sea of vapours]

How often did you remove the chain for waxing?

As an overall average it would be about every 300km. That did, and still does, vary somewhat though. I don't think I went beyond 400km between waxing on that chain, and if it had been on a very wet ride for several hours then I have tended to just re-wax immediately, so possibly as little as 100km. The actual 'work' involved in removing / waxing / replacing is only 5-6 minutes (over an elapsed two hours). That compares quite favourably with 1-2 minutes to thoroughly clean and dry it with isopropyl alcohol and a microfibre towel after a wet ride and guarantees that it's 'properly reset'.

I'm now using Silca's 'Endurance chip' in the wax, so now I go up to about 600km between waxing, with an average of getting on for 500km.

 

[GarthW]

My paraffin-and-graphite chain-lube method which gives me 20,000+ miles on a chain and cassette, and keeps itself clean, is on my site at https://wilsonminesco.com/bikes/chainwax/

 

[wafter]

My paraffin-and-graphite chain-lube method which gives me 20,000+ miles on a chain and cassette, and keeps itself clean, is on my site at https://wilsonminesco.com/bikes/chainwax/

Crikey - that's impressive! How many miles do you get before it needs re-treating? What sort of drivetrain are you running it on?



In other news, after far too long it finally dawned on me the other day that the increasingly brown hue of my wax mixture is (in addition to any coloration from existing lube on new chains) probably due to fine powdered rust migrating out of the chain after the various wet rides; especially as the colour change became far more significant once I started racking up utility miles in all weathers.

As such this is probably nowt to worry about and I'm intrigued to see how brown the mixture gets with ongoing use

 

[Sea of vapours]

As such this is probably nowt to worry about

Hmmm...... you think?

Surely, rust, even fine rust, is not a lubricant as such? It's probably much more akin to 'grinding powder' than 'lubricant'. So if you keep putting rust into your wax, then it'll be drawn into the chain each time you re-wax, with unwelcome consequences :-\

You can stop the rust happening in the first place by running the chain through a microfibre cloth dampened with isopropyl alcohol after wet rides; takes about thirty seconds and the IPA lasts ages (so not expensive).

 

[wafter]

Hmmm...... you think?

Surely, rust, even fine rust, is not a lubricant as such? It's probably much more akin to 'grinding powder' than 'lubricant'. So if you keep putting rust into your wax, then it'll be drawn into the chain each time you re-wax, with unwelcome consequences :-\

You can stop the rust happening in the first place by running the chain through a microfibre cloth dampened with isopropyl alcohol after wet rides; takes about thirty seconds and the IPA lasts ages (so not expensive).

No, certainly not a lubricant! While the situation would obviously be better were it not present in the wax, I suspect rust is softer than the steel from which the chain is made so I doubt would cause any abrasion either.

I imagine that most of the rust present in the wax is actually flushed out of the gaps between the plates / pins / rollers of the chain, having formed on the fresh steel exposed on worn surfaces rather than on the outside of the chain - which IME tends to be more limited (probably because the original surface finish is largely intact with no ongoing abrasion) and appears to stay put.

As such I very much doubt wiping the exterior of the chain will do anything to prevent the fine rust present inside the chain from entering the wax.

The only way I can see to mitigate this would be to flush the chain thoroughly with paraffin before waxing, which personally I can't be arsed with

 

[Sea of vapours]

Whilst all that sounds plausible, the fact does remain that, whether or not the rust transferred from the rust-containing wax back to the chain does any harm or not, you're getting rust in your wax in the first place. In contrast, I don't, despite riding in the rain regularly and frequently and returning with a wet chain. So, in turn, if, as you suggest, rust is forming on the inside, then entering the wax, it follows that something I do to a wet chain is avoiding this problem; and the only thing I do is wipe it with alcohol, so I contend that this does work!

 

[Willam]

Following

 

[alex_cycles]

Reigniting the "is it crap?" debate. I'm just gonna leave this here...


View: https://youtu.be/4kpyvVaBWJU?si=DKNA9dmsalDtlpzw


Olly says that it causes more efficiency and less wear for Lidl Trek. I can't speak for the efficiency, but I'm still using the 3 chains I rotated in back in 2022 on each of my three bikes (that's 9 chains total - 3 for each bike). Most of them have about 4000 miles on. When I used wet lube I was getting about 1500 miles on a chain.

 

[HLaB]

Reigniting the "is it crap?" debate. I'm just gonna leave this here...


View: https://youtu.be/4kpyvVaBWJU?si=DKNA9dmsalDtlpzw


Olly says that it causes more efficiency and less wear for Lidl Trek. I can't speak for the efficiency, but I'm still using the 3 chains I rotated in back in 2022 on each of my three bikes (that's 9 chains total - 3 for each bike). Most of them have about 4000 miles on. When I used wet lube I was getting about 1500 miles on a chain.

I'm using drip wax for several years and it certainly gives my chain more life and keeps things cleaner. The only drawback I see is you have to wipe down your chain after a wet ride. It's summer fortunately and it can be left months !

 

[scotsbikester]

A divisive and arguably thoroughly boring subject, but I'm sold for the most part.

Today having covered around 380 miles since the last treatment, the 11sp KMC chain on the CdF was a little overdue another dunk in the pan.

I usually check the chain for elongation before every 2-3 waxings; my Shimano go / no go tool unequivocally saying "no" so far. Today out of interest I tried to get a more precise idea of wear with a steel tape measure over the majority of the chain's length. I struggled to do this with it hung up so laid it out on the floor; pulling it from one end to try and ensure that it was as elongated as possible and lining it up against the join in our laminate flooring to make sure it was as straight as it could be.

To avoid using the very end of the tape for best accuracy I started 12" in; aiming for the middle of the first pin:

View attachment 548793


... and measured to the final rivet at the other end of the chain:

View attachment 548794

OCD? I'll give you OCD

I have just embarked on waxing today. I've always measured chain wear, pre waxing, by comparing the current chain to full length new unused "reference" chain. I had them hung up with a piece of old mudguard stay so they could be next to each other.

Today I expanded the system:

I started at an offset of 4 inches. And there was a convenient rivet hole in the tape to fix it. I'll just leave it, I've got plenty of tapes. The little rods at each end of the chain are cut offs from SKS mudguard kit. And are a perfect fit, they are just a little smaller than the hole. I can use them to pull the chain taught.

That's the new YBN chain, fully degreased prior to waxing, that I'm measuring. And it looks bang on. A nominal 114 link chain, but with one link missing (the quicklinks). So 113 links, 56 and 1/2 inches. Add the 4" offset, comes to 60 and a half, as measured.

Next time I've got the router out I might refine the thing by plowing a rebate so the tape is below the top of the board. I thought about a proper long steel rule, but they're more money than I want to spend.

EDIT. PS, OCD on speed. I am sure many of you were concerned about the discrepancy in mensuration because I am apparently measuring to the edge of the small bar, whereas I should be measuring to the inside face of the hole in the link. So, a micrometer measured the OD of the bar at 0.131, whereas a vernier gauge (with dial in thous) measured it at 0.133. The same vernier gauge measured the ID of the hole in the link at 0.144. I don't have calibration certificates for either of them, and both are mechanical. The micrometer is Moore and Wright, the vernier gauge is Mitutoyo, which I think are both well regarded, and I know their provenance.

So that makes a difference of 0.011. Or 11 thou. Or 3/256 of an inch. Give or take.

Which would account for the chain, apparently, being ever so slightly long. On the other hand, the tape hasn't been calibrated for temperature, and I wasn't regulating the pressure exerted on the chain to straighten it.

Or maybe trying to take a photo on an iPhone with one hand while pulling on a chain with the other, on the (very weedy) patio isn't exactly swiss watch levels of precision (or do I mean accuracy?)

 

[scotsbikester]

You can stop the rust happening in the first place by running the chain through a microfibre cloth dampened with isopropyl alcohol after wet rides; takes about thirty seconds and the IPA lasts ages (so not expensive).

You seem to be getting impressive chain life.

I've just waxed my first chain. This is almost entirely for cleanliness. Still, as I've spent some money setting up (brand new cassette, slow cooker, new expensive chain), and time cleaning the drive train, I'd like it to last.

I've got some isopropyl alcohol somewhere. Do you use it just after wet rides? How wet? And do you use it to get dry dust off too? Difficult to put into words, but how wet is "dampened"?

Thanks for any tips.

PS. when you go north on the A65, and cycle past Ingleton on that very (well, I say "very"...) straight bit of road, what's the surface like? Please don't tell me a pot-hole once took you out.

 

[Sea of vapours]

I use 500ml isopropyl spray bottles and I just spray about 2-3 full sprays onto the centre of a small, microfibre cloth, all in the same place. Then I wrap that area around the chain and run the chain through it in both directions 'til it stops being damp. If the chains is actually wet I'd run it through a dry microfibre cloth first to get the worst of the water off. In both cases, it's thirty seconds of work, not persistent rubbing. I'm sure more IPA is better, but the chains feels dry after the above in general. Since I don't get rust, I presume I'm doing it enough! Oh - I spray a couple of sprays onto the cassette too, then spin that and dry it as best as possible with the dry/IPA cloth. I've had superficial rust on the cassette a couple of times, but nothing permanent and it's very occasional. That might be from failing to do the IPA on cassette bit.

Yes, I do the same for dry dust. In current, dry conditions, I've only done this about one in three rides; just when it looks a bit less than pristine.

The surface on the A65 is pretty good; not that I make a habit of cycling very far on it, but I do. If you mean the straight starting about 1km NW of Ingleton then that is entirely fine. Why the interest in that, specifically?!

 

[scotsbikester]

I use 500ml isopropyl spray bottles and I just spray about 2-3 full sprays onto the centre of a small, microfibre cloth, all in the same place. Then I wrap that area around the chain and run the chain through it in both directions 'til it stops being damp. If the chains is actually wet I'd run it through a dry microfibre cloth first to get the worst of the water off. In both cases, it's thirty seconds of work, not persistent rubbing. I'm sure more IPA is better, but the chains feels dry after the above in general. Since I don't get rust, I presume I'm doing it enough! Oh - I spray a couple of sprays onto the cassette too, then spin that and dry it as best as possible with the dry/IPA cloth. I've had superficial rust on the cassette a couple of times, but nothing permanent and it's very occasional. That might be from failing to do the IPA on cassette bit.

Yes, I do the same for dry dust. In current, dry conditions, I've only done this about one in three rides; just when it looks a bit less than pristine.

The surface on the A65 is pretty good; not that I make a habit of cycling very far on it, but I do. If you mean the straight starting about 1km NW of Ingleton then that is entirely fine. Why the interest in that, specifically?!

Thanks. I'll try that if the chain gets wet.

From about the the Asda petrol station to just before the Mason's arms. Well, I say "about", I think the chainage was 342 metres. In a former life 45 years ago I was the contractor's engineer when we rebuilt that section of road and put the branch into the industrial estate. Just wondered how it held up over the decades in between.

 

[Sea of vapours]

Ah! it's not potholed, but it's been dug up in the sense of trenches to put services in / fix them repeatedly so it's not exactly silky smooth any more. It does not have any permanent issues though, unlike just beyond the Mason's Arms (northward) where a bit keeps subsiding.