An open letter to all condescending male chauvinist cyclists

[MontyVeda]

I am on about the ones you see where the saddle is about touching their frame and knees are almost touching their chin. Not a fine critique but more helpful advice.

like this?

 

[jonny jeez]

Then, by page 14, you could have used the past participle felt rather than the present feels, implying that the confusion was ongoing.

Fair enough.

 

[JoshM]

I hardly think that comparing offering a hand to someone is the same as offering advice unsolicited.

To use the changing puncture example given by a few here - the example doesn't fit. The man who approached @Pat "5mph" and the belles didn't ask them if they wanted some advice, he simply gave it. That's not the same as asking if someone needs a hand fixing a puncture, its akin to getting off your bike and making to fix their puncture without asking.

 

[jonny jeez]

There is a difference between offering help, and the way that some can start informing you. I often see people out with their saddle too low or bike in need of some attention but I don't feel the need to tell them unless we strike up a conversation and during it they start asking for advice. It could just be they are behind on their maintenance or on a borrowed bike not wanting to adjust the saddle position.

Honestly, I get that stuff all the time. It may be well meaning but I really think that often its not, its about showing another rider your prowess in some passive aggressive way . I cant speak.on anyone else's behalf but if it helps to diffuse the situation, it happens across genders. From my own personal.experience

I was lectured about my saddle height on sunday, after riding Flanders the following day..by a chap who finished the ride an hour slower than me. Sure he could be trying to help, more likely he was compensating.

I rode home last week and was joined by a club rider from a local club. He was insistent in telling me that if plan to do this often I must buy a filter mask...I've been doing it for about 10years. I wont be buying a filter mask

Riding up box hill, a lady shouted support for me with "nice legs!" I suspect there was a degree of irony but I laughed and wondered if I could pull that comment off....i wouldn't

 

[wheresthetorch]

I'm sure a woman with an English degree will be along shortly to tell us the proper technical name for that sort of thing

"Hyperbole."

 

[Dismount]

I think people these days are too easily offended the OP simply shared her frustrations. She may or may not have referred to 'all men' assuming she did if you are not one of these men don't be offended and give yourself a pat on the back. If I pass any cyclist I either say hello, nod my head or smile. If I saw a cyclist fixing a puncture or any other mechanical issue I would offer assistance if it were to be refused I would wish them a good day and carry on with my journey it's an act of kindness and not gender specific.

 

[Shaun]

I've removed a few posts. Please let's not fight amongst ourselves. Thanks.

 

[winjim]

I've removed a few posts. Please let's not fight amongst ourselves. Thanks.

See, this is just the sort of thing we've been talking about. A man comes in and starts interfering, throwing his weight around like he's got some sort of authority, deleting posts willy-nilly as if he flipping well owns the place or something. Appalling behaviour.

 

[theclaud]

Surely it's more than that. Being part of the class "male" is not something those of us who belong to it can opt out of, any more than we can "white" or "British". We can (with varying degrees of success depending on our self-awareness) attempt to opt out of certain behaviours, but we can't opt out of our experience of formation and living as males in a male-dominated society*. What Pat's letter should help us males to reflect on isn't something comfortably outside ourselves - the behaviour of other men, not like us atall - but on the structures of our society, that create the situation where those men behave the way they do, and that we are most definitely part of.

On one of my early Fridays, before I'd entirely worked out who you were and I'm quite certain before you knew who I was, I passed you repairing a puncture. "Need any help?" I called; "no I'm fine" you called back; and I cycled on. I've subsequently made the same offer to male cyclists. But no-one should kid themselves that the subtext to those various offers was not significantly different.

*there's a fascinating parallel with the debate on whether the prior life experience of trans women means that they have a different character of being a woman from cis women.

Who am I???

I should point out that I'd have accepted your help without a qualm had I been having any difficulties - which anyone can have, even if they know how to fix something. I've been assisted with minor (and occasionally serious) mechanicals countless times on the FNRttC, mostly by men, and don't feel at all belittled or patronized by it. I have occasionally been able to be of assistance to others, although there is usually a better or faster mechanic in the vicinity.

I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph, although I think the value in what Rocky says still applies.

As to your last (asterisked) point, I agree, if by 'fascinating' you mean 'utterly dismaying and desperately polarized'. It's a debate I'm mostly watching from the sidelines but expect to get caught up in at some time. I hesitate as I can't see a way out of the current impasse.

 

[theclaud]

If you have never been taught something how do you know it's meaning ....

And by raving , imagine napoleon and snowball where all are equal except some are more equal than others .

That sort of raving that really winds my wife up as it does nothing to help .

Me I don't care if your male or female , straight or not , all I care about is people not getting hurt . If I see something on any bike that's going to be an issue with that I will talk to people.

Usually a " not sure if you've noticed but .." generally works pretty well and gets a positive response.

The person I spoke to this morning who I asked if their hips or lower back hurt after riding their bike was appreciative of the suggestion of dropping the saddle height an inch to stop the severe hip rocking.

I'm attempting to be informative. It appears to me that you are resisting an opportunity to learn something.

I take descriptions of women as 'raving' with a hefty pinch of salt, not being convinced that it would be the adjective you'd choose if you were describing a man with the same objective qualities. I decided to investigate my hunch that its usage is heavily gendered by the sophisticated method of Googling it. This is the first hit:

irrational or incoherent talk.
"the ravings of a madwoman"
synonyms: gibberish, rambling, babbling, wild talk, incoherent talk
"he dismissed her words as the ravings of a hysterical woman"​

My case reaches for a cheroot, etc etc...

 

[smutchin]

I take descriptions of women as 'raving' with a hefty pinch of salt, not being convinced that it would be the adjective you'd choose if you were describing a man with the same objective qualities.

Cue male CC user helping you out by providing an example of a man being described as raving...

 

[subaqua]

Cue male CC user helping you out by providing an example of a man being described as raving...

Of course not that would be condescending and we can't have any of that .....

Even when it comes from somebody who thinks it's awful...

 

[Inertia]

Cue male CC user helping you out by providing an example of a man being described as raving...

.. by a woman

 

[subaqua]

I'm attempting to be informative. It appears to me that you are resisting an opportunity to learn something.

I take descriptions of women as 'raving' with a hefty pinch of salt, not being convinced that it would be the adjective you'd choose if you were describing a man with the same objective qualities. I decided to investigate my hunch that its usage is heavily gendered by the sophisticated method of Googling it. This is the first hit:

irrational or incoherent talk.
"the ravings of a madwoman"
synonyms: gibberish, rambling, babbling, wild talk, incoherent talk
"he dismissed her words as the ravings of a hysterical woman"​

My case reaches for a cheroot, etc etc...

No not resisting at all. However a massive amount of people have not been taught the difference . Me included .

That quote describes her to a tee .. the spittle flying out of her mouth as she ranted was not a pretty sight . A fairly regular occurrence too.

So , genuine question .

2 candidates 1 male 1 female , both equally qualified , same age , but male has the practical experience for the role.

Who should get the job?

Who got the job ?

 

[theclaud]

I was telling a story, which means that I didn't include all the details and might have coloured up one or two for effect. It's not uncommon, either in written or in oral storytelling. I'm sure a woman with an English degree will be along shortly to tell us the proper technical name for that sort of thing.

Sorry it's not more exotic, but I'd say that narration (as in the act of telling) probably covers it. If I wanted to sound like more of a nobber I'd say you are describing what happens at the level of discourse as opposed to story (my fave narratologist is French, and he would say récit and histoire), and encompasses questions of both mood and voice. If you want fancier words for a similar distinction you need to be a Russian Formalist, and throw in stuff like fabula and sujet, but it's all a bit old hat (except that they did coin the marvellous term ostranenie, meaning 'making strange', or what we have come to know as defamiliarization). The most interesting thing about all this (quiet in the cheap seats) is that 'story' (the actual or purported events told of) can only be reconstructed from discourse - so all that we really have is narrative.