An open letter to all condescending male chauvinist cyclists

[Inertia]

No not resisting at all. However a massive amount of people have not been taught the difference . Me included .

That quote describes her to a tee .. the spittle flying out of her mouth as she ranted was not a pretty sight . A fairly regular occurrence too.

So , genuine question .

2 candidates 1 male 1 female , both equally qualified , same age , but male has the practical experience for the role.

Who should get the job?

Who got the job ?

 

[theclaud]

Cue male CC user helping you out by providing an example of a man being described as raving...

[nervously searches own forum history]

 

[theclaud]

No not resisting at all. However a massive amount of people have not been taught the difference . Me included .

That quote describes her to a tee .. the spittle flying out of her mouth as she ranted was not a pretty sight . A fairly regular occurrence too.

So , genuine question .

2 candidates 1 male 1 female , both equally qualified , same age , but male has the practical experience for the role.

Who should get the job?

Who got the job ?

How should I know? What's it got to do with the thread?

I'm asking you to attempt to unlearn what you were taught and consider how it might be otherwise. I didn't say it was easy, so there's no need for the defensiveness and diversion.

 

[subaqua]

How should I know? What's it got to do with the thread?

I'm asking you to attempt to unlearn what you were taught and consider how it might be otherwise. I didn't say it was easy, so there's no need for the defensiveness and diversion.

it's as relevant as picking a specific word and attacking , at which point people do get defensive .

 

[smutchin]

No not resisting at all. However a massive amount of people have not been taught the difference . Me included .

You're the one who brought the phrase 'gender is a social construct' into the discussion - if you didn't understand what that means, why did you not make an effort to find out, rather than just dismissing it with a glib 'apparently'?

You protest that you've never been taught but @theclaud is making a pretty good attempt to explain it to you and you seem to have no interest in taking what she says on board.

Learning is a lifelong process - if you want it to be.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I was aware of a group of cyclists coming the other way when the bloke at the head of the group started with " don't be nervous on hills love - you won't get any better at them if you ride on your brakes like that"

That's exactly the attitude I am referring to, but lots of contributors to this thread have understood that the Belles are peed off because some male offered to help with a mechanical.
This was not the point of the op!

Feels like some bloke told her to do it....

He asked very politely
He's not just "some bloke"

Feels like this thread should be in the Politics sub forum to me

Why? This is a cycling issue for sure, don't you think?

I have had the experience of cycling slowly up a hill when one of the group I was with (a bloke, natch) rode alongside me and said, 'Nice low gear, good girl,' and patted me on the back. A friend was riding up a hill on a cycling holiday when some bloke saw fit to say to her, 'You want to change down a bit, love, makes it less of a slog.' In all the years I've been cycling, no woman has ever, unsolicited, said anything approaching this in terms of uselessness and sheer patronising ego-trippery. Men in general simply have no idea how often things like this occur, and not just related to riding a bike. It wears you down and makes you start to lose your sense of humour, especially when men then deny and deny that this happens with any frequency.

Exactly.
I have learned much from other women cyclists (from @Telemark and @flyingfifi for example) but, for a start we knew each other, for a second the learning resulted by me asking, by observing, by them suggesting, not by imposing.

Just out of interest - this to the women of CC BTW - how often does this sort of thing happen when you're out cycling? Is it and almost-every-time kind of thing, or regularly, or just occasionally / rarely?

Well, it used to happen to me cycling solo maybe once a year, if that.
That was when I hardly saw any cyclists around, up until maybe 2 years ago. The increase of unsolicited male patronizing comments coincided with the increase of cyclists in the area.
Never used to happen on a Belles ride.
Now it seems to happen almost every time we are on a fun ride, I think we give the impression of a motley of hapless women that need to be enlightened on how to ride ... in a man's way!

We have all understood that. The argument is that it is predominantly a man on woman thing.

Tbh, I'm beginning to change my mind after reading all the answers on this thread.
Could it be that man gets it a lot from man too?
That would not change my stance though: I am not having it no more, next guy to do this to me is gonna be at the receiving end of a very sharp (verbal) lashing.

Adult cycling for commuting and for fun is a "new thing" here.
I am one of those started cycle commuting in my late 40's seeking an alternative to public transport and for a personal challenge too.
The fun part of cycling for me came a couple of years later, when I discovered the newly formed Belles and the CC Ecosse rides.
Previously I was looking at drenched cyclists, all helmets and hi-viz, without really registering, vaguely thinking "how/why do they do it.
Of course, the Sunday club racers were obvious to me, they did it for sport, I did not know one would do both types of cycling.
The ones I saw were invariably all males, apart from the girls in University land.
It did not occur to me, then, that I, an ordinary middle aged woman, could go wherever, whenever I want on a bike.
I knew I had much to learn when I started cycling, but as an older woman I did not think " this cycling is a thing that mostly men do, can I do it too? "
It was a thing that mostly nobody did here, so we started all equal!
I feel, though, that a younger woman, not so self confident, could be put off cycling if a series of such patronizing episodes were the norm.

 

[subaqua]

You're the one who brought the phrase 'gender is a social construct' into the discussion - if you didn't understand what that means, why did you not make an effort to find out, rather than just dismissing it with a glib 'apparently'?

You protest that you've never been taught but @theclaud is making a pretty good attempt to explain it to you and you seem to have no interest in taking what she says on board.

Learning is a lifelong process - if you want it to be.

No I learnt on here that it is just that . Weeks ago .

The apparently was a highlighting of a " I never never knew that but I do know"

Then TMN waded in with a condescending post in response to a post , which is a really good way to stop people doing something .

I guess the written word doesn't come across as well as talking.

Can you see what you are also doing ?

 

[Julia9054]

What we haven't heard is the full chorus of blokes saying "it doesn't happen to me", or its cousin "any bloke tells me what to do.........."

. . . followed by it happens just as much to men as it does to women so it is a non issue.

 

[theclaud]

Just out of interest - this to the women of CC BTW - how often does this sort of thing happen when you're out cycling? Is it and almost-every-time kind of thing, or regularly, or just occasionally / rarely?

Today, while I was cycling, no one offered me patronizing advice at all. They might have done, had they been able able to catch me.

Last week, I overtook a male cyclist who was pedalling along at a leisurely pace. He immediately felt impelled to put the hammers down to get past me again. It wasn't an incidental variation of pace, as I'd been going a lot faster than him up to that point.

Today, whilst I was off the bike but had been at a meeting about cycling, I was questioned by a man about my lack of cycling helmet. When I told him I didn't believe in them he found it necessary to tell me an extremely dull anecdote which was supposed to illustrate the indispensable nature of plastic hats but did nothing of the kind except in his head. Within the hour two more men who already know my views on helmets had told me pointed anecdotes about helmets 'saving their [or someone else's] lives'. My presence at the meeting was as a cycling representative - i.e. someone whose knowledge and views about cycling were notionally respected. Two more male acquaintances ask me why I don't wear a helmet every time I see them, despite my having made it clear that I am not interested in their opinions on the matter.

The incident that most sticks in my head, though, is not a recent one. There is a traffic light on my route home at which my habit/tactic is to be at the front and wait ahead of the line, in primary. There are at least three reasons why I do this. I was once doing exactly this when I felt a tap on my shoulder. A man had got out of his car to explain to me that it would be 'more accommodating' if I were to wait to the left, 'out of the way' of the cars. I'd have found it intimidating if I hadn't been too busy being astonished - he was a big man.

 

[Slick]

That's exactly the attitude I am referring to, but lots of contributors to this thread have understood that the Belles are peed off because some male offered to help with a mechanical.
This was not the point of the op!

He asked very politely
He's not just "some bloke"


Why? This is a cycling issue for sure, don't you think?

Exactly.
I have learned much from other women cyclists (from @Telemark and @flyingfifi for example) but, for a start we knew each other, for a second the learning resulted by me asking, by observing, by them suggesting, not by imposing.


Well, it used to happen to me cycling solo maybe once a year, if that.
That was when I hardly saw any cyclists around, up until maybe 2 years ago. The increase of unsolicited male patronizing comments coincided with the increase of cyclists in the area.
Never used to happen on a Belles ride.
Now it seems to happen almost every time we are on a fun ride, I think we give the impression of a motley of hapless women that need to be enlightened on how to ride ... in a man's way!


Tbh, I'm beginning to change my mind after reading all the answers on this thread.
Could it be that man gets it a lot from man too?
That would not change my stance though: I am not having it no more, next guy to do this to me is gonna be at the receiving end of a very sharp (verbal) lashing.

Adult cycling for commuting and for fun is a "new thing" here.
I am one of those started cycle commuting in my late 40's seeking an alternative to public transport and for a personal challenge too.
The fun part of cycling for me came a couple of years later, when I discovered the newly formed Belles and the CC Ecosse rides.
Previously I was looking at drenched cyclists, all helmets and hi-viz, without really registering, vaguely thinking "how/why do they do it.
Of course, the Sunday club racers were obvious to me, they did it for sport, I did not know one would do both types of cycling.
The ones I saw were invariably all males, apart from the girls in University land.
It did not occur to me, then, that I, an ordinary middle aged woman, could go wherever, whenever I want on a bike.
I knew I had much to learn when I started cycling, but as an older woman I did not think " this cycling is a thing that mostly men do, can I do it too? "
It was a thing that mostly nobody did here, so we started all equal!
I feel, though, that a younger woman, not so self confident, could be put off cycling if a series of such patronizing episodes were the norm.

It's not only younger women who can be "not so self confident". I can now recognise Mrs Slick's attitude in a lot of the stories and replies.

 

[fossyant]

There are nobbers in all aspects of life.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I was cycling along the segregated riverfront, a guy behind me.
Like I was taught at cycle training, I saw him by looking behind.
Expecting him to overtake, me about to signal right, I look behind again.
Him: "you're ok, dear, don't worry, carry on"
I'm talking to myself now yes, yes, I know I'm "ok", and I'm not your bloody "dear"

 

[smutchin]

The apparently was a highlighting of a " I never never knew that but I do know"

I see. Unfortunately, you undermined yourself by following it up with use of the words 'raving feminist' - not a well-chosen phrase in the context of a discussion about men's attitudes to women.

You may believe it is an accurate description, but if there's one thing this thread highlights, it's that words and actions can be loaded with far more meaning than is apparent if you only ever take them at face value.

 

[subaqua]

I see. Unfortunately, you undermined yourself by following it up with use of the words 'raving feminist' - not a well-chosen phrase in the context of a discussion about men's attitudes to women.

You may believe it is an accurate description, but if there's one thing this thread highlights, it's that words and actions can be loaded with far more meaning than is apparent if you only ever take them at face value.

Aaah so that excuses the behaviour a prolific poster derides , yet displays.

Do what I say not what I do ? Never a great tactic .

 

[winjim]

I have had the experience of cycling slowly up a hill when one of the group I was with (a bloke, natch) rode alongside me and said, 'Nice low gear, good girl,' and patted me on the back.

As a bit of an aside but sort of on the same subject, as you may remember we're currently trying to make a half decent job of raising a daughter. One of the things we're doing is to always praise the action, not the child. So we never say "good girl", and to me that phrase seems horribly patronising even when said to a one year old.