Angry threats

[Tetedelacourse]

Col, I can see a flaw with the school plan. I think the majority of motorists don't go to school any more.

 

[magnatom]

Good points,BUTin the nicest way possible,i think you need to see the reality.Those drip drip drips,are exactly that,in a massive ocean that doesnt even notice the difference.So how about this?let the schools at some point,and i know it could take a very long time,to start educating on this,instead of you sometimes getting threatened or squeezed of the road,or even knocked over by an incompetant driver,while your busy trying to educate the masses,because it will take you even longer to do this in my opinion,but the school way,i know eventually,is safer all round isnt it?

Ummm errr, my drip, drip, drip has ended up in the Sun (3 times!) in national TV (Scottish) and will, when they pull their finger out , result in a feature article in the Herald. You'd be surprised how much water is wasted each year because of taps drip, drip, dripping......

 

[Fab Foodie]

FWIW, 3 things need to happen:

Proper "cycle-craft" and "Road-Safety" needs to be taught in schools.
The above needs to be re-enforced by driving schools.
Stiffer penalties for unsafe driving/causing injury/death on the roads

 

[Origamist]

You started this one before with Cab, who I seem to recall dispatched your argument rather well. Back then the ball was in your court to show how it doesn't work.

No, Cab refused to enter into a reasoned debate, citing internet anonymity as a justification for avoiding examining his beliefs vis a vis cycling and road safety.

BM, I don't have to prove anything as it is not I who is making unsubstantiated claims about risk and safety. The ball is in your court.

 

[col]

Actually to some extent I think origamist is right in that we probably can't prove it. As I am sure you are aware origamist, this is a difficult area to study and produce conclusive results, especially because, as Bentmikey has pointed out, cycling is so safe to begin with. However, I would suggest that experience and knowledge counts for something. This is something that I would suggest that the people behind bikeability have.

In my own experience I find it works as well. Some of my earlier videos show me being squeezed on approach to a particular junction on a few occasions. I was riding in the secondary position on these occasions. I changed my riding after advice on here (some from bentmikey) so that I took the primary position earlier and I stopped having similar incidents. I find that if I am lazy on occasion and take a more submissive position that cars pass me closer.

I think we all take a primary or assertive position at times like these with experience and mistakes made,but im talking about like your last vid,where you might have,if you wanted,let the car behind pass,but you didnt want to,because you were doing nothing wrong,and i agree,but the driver behind you didnt see it that way.

 

[MERV]

(At first I too was a gutter nutter, not knowing any better).

???

Slightly patronising?

Such a short post says a thousand words about you BM.

 

[magnatom]

I think we all take a primary or assertive position at times like these with experience and mistakes made,but im talking about like your last vid,where you might have,if you wanted,let the car behind pass,but you didnt want to,because you were doing nothing wrong,and i agree,but the driver behind you didnt see it that way.

Did you read one of my earlier posts where I talked about your suggestion, i.e. you were suggesting that I allow an overtake on a roundabout? Do you agree that by cycling in secondary on a roundabout suggests to following drivers that it is safe to overtake and could result in a car cutting across your path?

 

[col]

Ummm errr, my drip, drip, drip has ended up in the Sun (3 times!) in national TV (Scottish) and will, when they pull their finger out , result in a feature article in the Herald. You'd be surprised how much water is wasted each year because of taps drip, drip, dripping......

But just think,if the same efforts were made to do what Fab has said,it would be country wide almost straight away,with no wastage of water at all,as every single person leaving school would be aware of it,and then all new drivers too.

FWIW, 3 things need to happen:

Proper "cycle-craft" and "Road-Safety" needs to be taught in schools.
The above needs to be re-enforced by driving schools.
Stiffer penalties for unsafe driving/causing injury/death on the roads

Thats it,simple as that,well may be not,but thats a real solution.

 

[BentMikey]

No, Cab refused to enter into a reasoned debate, citing internet anonymity as a justification for avoiding examining his beliefs vis a vis cycling and road safety.

BM, I don't have to prove anything as it is not I who is making unsubstantiated claims about risk and safety. The ball is in your court.

If I recall correctly, you implied that there were significant problems with vehicular cycling, and then refused to cite studies and sources.

Given that this is the first I've seen of this issue despite much reading, that it's not even close to as visible as the helmet debate, and that it goes against what many experts suggest, I'd suggest the onus is all on you if you want to do any convincing.

Seriously, I'd love to see why you think that it's a poor approach, and for you to substantiate what you're saying. Bear in mind I started out on one side of the helmet debate, and was unwillingly convinced that I was wrong by the evidence, so my mind is more open than you might give me credit for.

 

[MERV]

What magna said in an earlier post.You know when it is safe to ride primary/secondary and know the different tactics to use when you have ridden a route for a number of years.

 

[col]

Did you read one of my earlier posts where I talked about your suggestion, i.e. you were suggesting that I allow an overtake on a roundabout? Do you agree that by cycling in secondary on a roundabout suggests to following drivers that it is safe to overtake and could result in a car cutting across your path?

i meant to slow enough so you could have let him pass after the roundabout,where there was a gap before parked cars,then similar after that,but only if you dont mind slowing?Thats what im trying to get at,BM has argued you might have to stop,i cant see you having to do that,but slowing enough would let them go on their way,and everyone would be happy,and all you did was loose a few seconds?do you see what im trying to get at?

 

[col]

Col, I can see a flaw with the school plan. I think the majority of motorists don't go to school any more.

Good point,a drastic rethink is needed

 

[MERV]

The answer isn't Primary.The answer isn't Secondary.

The answer is a blend of the two and knowing how/when to use them.

 

[col]

The answer isn't Primary.The answer isn't Secondary.

The answer is a blend of the two and knowing how best to use them.

I think thats well put,but i would also add,be well mannered on the road,it does get better results,by that i mean,if you can,let cars pass,and why worry about slowing to do it,unless your in training,but i guess you wont hold anyone up then anyway

 

[Origamist]

If I recall correctly, you implied that there were significant problems with vehicular cycling, and then refused to cite studies and sources.

Given that this is the first I've seen of this issue despite much reading, that it's not even close to as visible as the helmet debate, and that it goes against what many experts suggest, I'd suggest the onus is all on you if you want to do any convincing.

Seriously, I'd love to see why you think that it's a poor approach, and for you to substantiate what you're saying. Bear in mind I started out on one side of the helmet debate, and was unwillingly convinced that I was wrong by the evidence, so my mind is more open than you might give me credit for.

No, BM. I have never said there were "significant probelms" with VC. I doubt you are wilfully misrepresenting my remarks, but it does your argument little credit.

What I object to is people making unsupported claims about "proper cyclecraft" and its ability to reduce accident rates when there is no meaningful data available to prove or disprove this supposition.