Another RLJ

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martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Ok here's a case in point. I wouldn't normally upload this at all but since it's being discussed. A red light, no threat from traffic, it's a well marked cycle lane. What is the point of jumping the red as the two cyclists do?

1. Is it just because you can?
2. Would you risk it if police were there?
3. Would you argue if you were given a fixed penalty for it?


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBvGDuhRGoY
 

nickb

Guru
Location
Cardiff
What is the point of jumping the red as the two cyclists do?
To avoid losing momentum.

OK, if it was the ONLY traffic light en-route, there would be little or no point; but add-up the time spent stopping at every light on my commute and it really racks up. The bloody things are sprouting-up everywhere with little or no thought given to their sequencing. I do not cycle through traffic lights, whatever colour is being displayed, when it's unsafe to do so. BUT, if it's safe, I'm through.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
To avoid losing momentum.

OK, if it was the ONLY traffic light en-route, there would be little or no point; but add-up the time spent stopping at every light on my commute and it really racks up. The bloody things are sprouting-up everywhere with little or no thought given to their sequencing. I do not cycle through traffic lights, whatever colour is being displayed, when it's unsafe to do so. BUT, if it's safe, I'm through.

I spend over 10mins waiting at traffic lights on each leg of my commute. I don't jump any red lights. everyone that does is clearly impatient.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
If it's not impatienc, why else break the law? Regaining momentum could even be regarded as good exercise. I certainly don't hold losing momentum as a good excuse I'm afraid
 

stowie

Legendary Member
I don't RLJ because RLJ'ing irritates pedestrians and can put them (who are a more vulnerable road user) in more danger.


However, traffic lights are yet another road invention that currently is geared towards cars with little or no consideration to other road users.

And the argument that if we as cyclists don't behave then we can't expect drivers to treat us well is incredibly flawed. For a start, drivers are in charge of a much more dangerous vehicle and should be better trained with the driving test etc. Secondly, the behaviour of cyclists is used to justify the behaviour of drivers in many cases. It is a way of justifying poor and dangerous driving by trying to divert the blame from the one responsible to the more vulnerable party. And it seems to work, judging by some of the comments on here.

Of course some RLJ'ing is done by impatient idiots who would be idiots in whatever mode of transport they chose.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
Clearly? Why so?

Why don't you wait?
If it's ok and safe for you to go, then can motorists go?
The rules of using the road state that you must stop at red lights, and by going through them you are breaking the law, and thus a criminal. Do you like being a criminal?

laugh.gif
 

nickb

Guru
Location
Cardiff
Why don't you wait?
If it's ok and safe for you to go, then can motorists go?
The rules of using the road state that you must stop at red lights, and by going through them you are breaking the law, and thus a criminal. Do you like being a criminal?
How ridiculous.

15 years ago I was just as enthusiastic about being seen to obey the rules of the road to the letter as the most uber-zealous members on this site. I did so in the belief that I'd be setting an example to other cyclists and demonstrating to the drivers of motorised vehicles that cyclists could be responsible.

That belief was misguided - nobody gave a toss. Drivers still cut me up and sounded their horns at me for having the temerity to impede their passage. Taxi & bus drivers continued to overtake with only millimetres to spare in order to demonstrate their annoyance at me using their lane. Other cyclists looked at me like I was an idiot.

I now treat everyone else on the road: drivers, cyclists & pedestrians as hostile. I treat traffic lights the same way as I do cycle lanes: optional. I still regard myself as a good and safe cyclist.

The majority, by a large margin, of people I see passing through red lights during my daily commute are doing so at the wheel of a car, taxi or bus. I'd suggest that, instead of wasting energy worrying about other cyclists doing stuff that annoys you, you get a life and worry about more important things.
 
The trouble is traffic lights aren't optional but are chosen to be ignored by people when it suits them.

Remember if plod could be bothered then he'd probably nick you and fine you:wacko:.
 

nickb

Guru
Location
Cardiff
The trouble is traffic lights aren't optional but are chosen to be ignored by people when it suits them.

Remember if plod could be bothered then he'd probably nick you and fine you if he could be bothered.
If he could be bothered AND if he wasn't too busy nicking & fining people for dropping litter & fag-ends or letting their dogs shoot on the pavement.

Maybe he'd be more concerned with dealing with motorists speeding in residential areas or outside schools. Maybe when he'd finished dealing with speeding motorists outside the school gates, he could spend some time rounding-up the scumbags selling wraps to the kids as they wander off to the chippy for lunch.

Then he could devote some of his time turning up to look for some forensic evidence at the scene of a burglary or responding to a woman who's called 999 'cos her fella's kicking the living daylights out of her.

No, he'd be far too busy nicking me for riding through a red traffic light - that's the answer to getting this country back to law & order.
 
No, he'd be far too busy nicking me for riding through a red traffic light - that's the answer to getting this country back to law & order.

While I don't particularly like RLJers I hate mobile phone driving morons with a vengeance...but media frenzy has seemed to make everyone forget about the many laws motorists break.

The are so unconcerned about motorists that I see GATSO's are going as well.Then again there was a lot of whingeing when the speeding motorists were caught,that they are just here to boost the government coffers when we all know that that is bull.If you didn't speed then there wouldn't be a problem.

Another thing is whereas mobile phone use while driving is common I never see some sort of blitz to catch these people.I've even seen it ignored.
 

stowie

Legendary Member
How so? They treat all road users the same, unfortunately some people choose to ignore their message.



Firstly, traffic lights are put in because of a need to control car/van/lorry movements. It is doubtful that most traffic lights would be required if the traffic consisted of cyclists (bit of a facetious point, I grant you, but the need for traffic lights normally isn't because of conflicting cycle flow).

Secondly, the timing of sets of lights are now often set for traffic travelling at 30mph. If you have several sets of lights on a road, the timings are geared towards traffic travelling at this speed - cyclists travelling slower get out of sync with the traffic light sequence and may end up hitting each at red. Interestingly, where cycling is more prevalent such as Copenhagen, the lights are specifically sequenced to produce "rolling greens" for cyclists.

Thirdly, there is little "cost" to a motorist stopping at lights, whereas on a cycle one does try to keep momentum. Shorter sequences that cycle through the different phases more quickly would aid cyclists who would be able to modify their speed to catch the shorter sequence and thus lose less momentum. The reason why this doesn't work so well with cars? Well, drivers will RLJ much more if the sequences are shorter and the gaps between the each set of lights changing would become long compared with each time on green to prevent accidents.

I see drivers RLJ all the time. But they are of the amber-gambler type of RLJ, not the go through red which cyclists do. Both are stupid. Not only is the amber gambling potentially dangerous, but it requires the time all sets are on red to be extended to try to prevent conflict (especially on cross-roads where right turning vehicles are held up by people jumping lights). So as a whole, the amber gambling will increase the average motorists time waiting for lights to change.

You are confusing "everyone being treated the same" with "everyone having to fit into road control geared towards cars". Of course everyone needs to wait at red. But the sighting of the lights and sequencing are all done with cars in mind and not other road users.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
How ridiculous.

15 years ago I was just as enthusiastic about being seen to obey the rules of the road to the letter as the most uber-zealous members on this site. I did so in the belief that I'd be setting an example to other cyclists and demonstrating to the drivers of motorised vehicles that cyclists could be responsible.

That belief was misguided - nobody gave a toss. Drivers still cut me up and sounded their horns at me for having the temerity to impede their passage. Taxi & bus drivers continued to overtake with only millimetres to spare in order to demonstrate their annoyance at me using their lane. Other cyclists looked at me like I was an idiot.

I now treat everyone else on the road: drivers, cyclists & pedestrians as hostile. I treat traffic lights the same way as I do cycle lanes: optional. I still regard myself as a good and safe cyclist.

The majority, by a large margin, of people I see passing through red lights during my daily commute are doing so at the wheel of a car, taxi or bus. I'd suggest that, instead of wasting energy worrying about other cyclists doing stuff that annoys you, you get a life and worry about more important things.


So you do it because other vehicles treat you like gum on their shoe?
I suggest you stop trying to beat around the bush and just get on with RLJ without trying to condone it. Whilst i continue to campaign for cycling safety.

[QUOTE 1160173"]
It's annoying stopping, unclipping, clipping back in and then gaining speed again.
[/quote]

come on lee, you must have learnt how to trackstand by now.

If he could be bothered AND if he wasn't too busy nicking & fining people for dropping litter & fag-ends or letting their dogs shoot on the pavement.

Maybe he'd be more concerned with dealing with motorists speeding in residential areas or outside schools. Maybe when he'd finished dealing with speeding motorists outside the school gates, he could spend some time rounding-up the scumbags selling wraps to the kids as they wander off to the chippy for lunch.

Then he could devote some of his time turning up to look for some forensic evidence at the scene of a burglary or responding to a woman who's called 999 'cos her fella's kicking the living daylights out of her.

No, he'd be far too busy nicking me for riding through a red traffic light - that's the answer to getting this country back to law & order.

Lets not forget, that some officers deal with buglers, some with vehicle crime, some with murders etc...

I've seen a few cyclists getting pulled over by police officers for breaking the law, i've also seen vehicles getting pulled for breaking the law but how can you expect them to do anything if they don't witness it?
 
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