Anybody think these should be mandatory?

[swansonj]

I have no problems at all with signs on the back of lorries. I don't understand the "victim blaming" argument against them. If they give someone a chance to reconsider creeping close to very large encroaching wheels, that's good enough, isn't it? Do principles matter more than tragic deaths?

But that isn't the choice. The reason "don't shift the blame onto the victim" is a principle in the first place is that in the long run it leads to even more deaths, by stopping the necessary preventive measures being taken.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

I work in the diy store the OP mentioned in the 1st post,
I noticed that quite a few wagons have the sign on the back, this is one I spotted today in the warehouse yard.

Fine with those signs on trucks and for my two penn'orth, filtering up the side of a lorry at a junction is a form of attempted self harm or suicide, but there have been numerous occasions when I've been stopped at roundabouts etc not in the gutter and tipper trucks more often, but big beasts like this too, have pulled up alongside or at least overlapped my rear end.

Is there a commensuate label in the cab for some truck drivers benefit with a picture of a bicycle and something along the lines of 'WARNING DANGER, these things squash easily, do not pull alongside one if it is stationary at a junction'

 

[Deleted member 23692]

I largely agree. The fault lies with a society that thinks it is acceptable for truck drivers to be allowed into a public place in charge of a piece of heavy machinery that has been designed in a way such that the operator cannot ensure its safety. Moving a piece of heavy machinery into a zone that you cannot ensure is free from members of the public would not be tolerated in any other work environment these days.

...and society is also at fault for allowing cyclists on the road with no mandatory training or test of competency. Do you not think that's remiss in a world were risk management and H&S seem king?

 

[swansonj]

...and society is also at fault for allowing cyclists on the road with no mandatory training or test of competency. Do you not think that's remiss in a world were risk management and H&S seem king?

No, not particularly.

I think the sort of fairly standard H&S risk assessment that I'm sure many of us do at work would conclude that the present risk management provisions round cyclists on roads are probably about right, but that the present risk management around lorries is not. Cyclists can pretty well always see where they are going; lorries can't. Even without factoring in the difference in mass and power, that's a fairly fundamental difference.

 

[Chris Norton]

This LGV is just starting a left turn, here is the video of what he can see.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wzL0Kyk4m-8

And the moral of this story is don't undertake lgv at junctions when you see them indicating OR their road placement tells you that something is going to happen.

It's not just cyclist's that do crazy things. How many of us have seen a car overtaking a lgv on a roundabout only to see the brake lights appear when the lgv HAS to cut the lane's down simply to accomodate the trailer. Stay away from lgv's unless your sure you can get by them safely.

 

[TheDoctor]

I'm staggered by that video of what lorry drivers can't see.
How can anything with visibility that bad be allowed on the roads?

 

[Night Train]

I'm staggered by that video of what lorry drivers can't see.
How can anything with visibility that bad be allowed on the roads?

It's an articulated lorry. Unfortunately that happens, and those of us who drive, or have driven, them [should] realise and make every attempt to make sure the near side is clear before and during the turn. Visibility in the mirrors is actually very good until the tractor unit starts to turn relative to the trailer, and the cyclists in the video could only have been missed in the mirrors if they all decided to undertake the lorry after it had already started the left turn.

It is the same problem with cars pulling trailers or caravans. Even in a solo car there are areas where the mirrors cannot cover, and the driver cannot see at every moment of a manoeuver.

Perhaps a solution, for the truck driver's view, is to have cameras covering every corner in every direction. However, that would mean that the driver never moves off because the hazards in every view changes every time he/she/ looks at the mirror or video screen.

Ultimately it should be down to a mutual level of respect and consideration between all road users, and driving/riding defensively so as not to trust one's own safety, and the safety of others, to the actions, or lack of, of another road user.

 

[subaqua]

...and society is also at fault for allowing cyclists on the road with no mandatory training or test of competency. Do you not think that's remiss in a world were risk management and H&S seem king?

nope, we don't need to be molly coddled what society needs to realise is that there are vulnerable road users and extra care should be taken when in proximity to them.
there will always be a minority of cyclists that think rules of survival don't apply to them.
using your logic pedestrians should not be allowed to cross roads without being formally trained and tested.

 

[GrasB]

...and society is also at fault for allowing cyclists on the road with no mandatory training or test of competency. Do you not think that's remiss in a world were risk management and H&S seem king?

The whole reason there is a driving test & a large number of laws associated with the driving of motorised vehicles is that those vehicles bring by far the biggest potential risk to the roads. The responsibility for that risk lies solely on the operator of that vehicle. This is a principle of H&S, if something delivers a high risk to the operator or others the operator is given training so that they can operate their equipment safely. Note it's the operator of the high risk equipment which is trained not the people around them as it's the operators duty to keep those people safe as possible.

The problem with the lack of traffic enforcement much beyond speeding is that it doesn't impress the importance of driving safely & thus minimising the risks to those around, only driving inside the speed limit.