Anyone affected by the new expanded ULEZ zone and how do you feel about it?

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tom73

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Not A peer reviewed paper, several. I read the paper versions, but I'm sure there are some on line if you care to look. Off the top of my head Imperial College London have done a few investigations, but the history of measuring it goes back to the days of steam.

I don't buy it personally the idea that in anyway reducing car use will be worse off for air quality is bonkers. Particulates for tyres is in it's self is a real danger to public health which perversely is even worse from all electric vehicles. Equally the university of Sheffield showed that air quality inside a car was worse than outside of it.
 
I don't buy it personally the idea that in anyway reducing car use will be worse off for air quality is bonkers. Particulates for tyres is in it's self is a real danger to public health which perversely is even worse from all electric vehicles. Equally the university of Sheffield showed that air quality inside a car was worse than outside of it.

I don't care whether you buy it or not, I was offering my informed opinion for free. ^_^

You've changed the point I made slightly by claiming I said reducing car use could be worse for air quality, when I said that moving people to the underground was not as clean and healthy as people may think due to the increased concentrations down there, which is clear and provable fact for anyone that cared to look.

Particulate from tyres could be an issue, but the primary sources could equally be re-suspended road dust, but measurements during lockdown showed that a bigger potential issue from electric vehicles was due to the change in formation of secondary particulate, formed by gasses in the atmosphere combining and separating between being particles and gasses and back again and the present view is that there is no safe concentration, and the speciation of these secondary particles could be more harmful than those created from combustion. Don't forget, ICE vehicles will still be around for decades, and the improvements that would have come about had they still been potential production will no longer occur, so the cleaner technology is liable to be a couple of decades behind were it could otherwise have been.

Lockdown reductions also flagged the potential issue of the reduction in NOx leading to an increase in ground level ozone, which is more harmful than the gasses being replaced.
 

Chap sur le velo

Über Member
Location
@acknee
I'm not going to say anything more than I can only see you have a point for individuals who are 'forced' to sell their cars and have to start using public transport.

Yes a few people will inevitably be worse off after almost any new law, but the scientific evidence here is that huge majority will benefit from cleaner air.


Now by personal choice I'm off to catch the tube (as I have done for many years) for 40 mins, with the rest of the day enjoyed in a cleaner london.
 
The PM2.5 mass in the LU (mean 88 μg m−3, median 28 μg m−3) was greater than at ambient background locations (mean 19 μg m−3, median 14 μg m−3) and roadside environments in central London (mean 22 μg m−3, median 14 μg m−3). Concentrations varied between lines and locations, with the deepest and shallowest submerged lines being the District (median 4 μg m−3) and Victoria (median 361 μg m−3 but up to 885 μg m−3). Broadly in agreement with other subway systems around the world, sampled LU PM2.5 comprised 47% iron oxide, 7% elemental carbon, 11% organic carbon, and 14% metallic and mineral oxides.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412019313649?via=ihub
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
I don't buy it personally the idea that in anyway reducing car use will be worse off for air quality is bonkers. Particulates for tyres is in it's self is a real danger to public health which perversely is even worse from all electric vehicles. Equally the university of Sheffield showed that air quality inside a car was worse than outside of it.

Let me burst that bubble for you...

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/do-ev-brakes-and-tires-cause-more-particulate-pollution/
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Basic starting point with any paper or article who commissioned it , who carried it out , who published it and why.
That article has all 3 red flags , totally one sided , totally unreliable.
Absolutely. Everyone knows that the RAC who commissioned the report and research that the article discusses are a bunch of tree huggers who hate the combustion engine. - Unless you are referring to the first part of the article which discusses George Useless, the Environment Secretary that week. I agree that he is totally unreliable as is the "emissions analytics" report.

Although to be fair to Emissions Analytics they do focus on tyre pressure and better quality tyres. Guess where you are going to find active tyre pressure monitoring and higher quality tyres? I'll give you a clue - it's not my 10 year old diesel Renault Scenic that I am now replacing with a VW ID4 which *shock* has both of those things.

Basic starting point when refuting any paper or article is to read the thing first - then you don't look as daft.

Perhaps you prefer this one?
https://epha.org/electric-vehicles-and-air-pollution-the-claims-and-the-facts/

Still too biased for you?
 
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tom73

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Now boarding on troll best click ignore.
 

Alex321

Veteran
Location
South Wales
Now boarding on troll best click ignore.

I presume than, that you can link to a reputable study showing that tyre pollution is worse form EVs - I genuinely find it hard t think of any reason it might be.

It will be a bigger proportion of the n-the-road pollution from an EV, but that is because everything else is so much lower.
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
I presume than, that you can link to a reputable study showing that tyre pollution is worse form EVs - I genuinely find it hard t think of any reason it might be.
Come on Alex - we all know that EVs are heavier so must be worse!!:laugh:

I think Tom has given up given that he hasn't provided any alternative research.
 
All the extra weight of an EV?

Yes - but they use their brakes much less because they use the regen instead for a lot of slowing down

Brakes generate a lot of brake dust

so - logically rather than scientifically, they generate less dust from the brakes
although the tyre dust is probably worse as they still have to slow down the mass - and take it round corners
 
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