Apalling actions from an Arriva bus driver
- Thread starter Matthew_T
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[quote="PaulSB, post: 2614249, member: 331"
What I find amazing about this incident, thread and the Commuting section in general is that I simply don't recognise much of this in my cycling. Occasional close pass, every now and again a yob shouts at me to get on the cycle path ......... perhaps I should chase them down for a good row?[/quote]
me too.
Then I ride/walk/drive in central London and find myself dodging pillock cyclists more often then pillock drivers and recognise the self righteous crap that too many peddle here.
What I find amazing about this incident, thread and the Commuting section in general is that I simply don't recognise much of this in my cycling. Occasional close pass, every now and again a yob shouts at me to get on the cycle path ......... perhaps I should chase them down for a good row?[/quote]
me too.
Then I ride/walk/drive in central London and find myself dodging pillock cyclists more often then pillock drivers and recognise the self righteous crap that too many peddle here.
classic33
Leg End Member
If he were to do the same as people seem to think all teenagers do, drink, get drunk & end up throwing up, I'd say there'd be as many having a go at hin for doing that. He's in a no win situation
campbellab
Senior Member
- Location
- Swindon
But its that attitude that is part of the problem.
markharry66
Guru
Pass nothing wrong with it. If your not there to judge what Matthew can see in front of him (and we never will be) from camera looked fine.
Matthew you have to learn to control your temper walk way or be less aggressive when talking to or confronting people. Personally I would not have bothered. Life is to short. On a daily commute I get cut up daily through London. Bus drivers, as a pro driver, that represents the company swearing,y confronting members of the public, arguing the toss with the public, shouting are all not acceptable. The represent the company. Driving standards are shocking. Personally if the company refuses to do anything about this I would head off to blogger create a blog. Use the video write some content and expose the fact that have no idea about road safety
Matthew you have to learn to control your temper walk way or be less aggressive when talking to or confronting people. Personally I would not have bothered. Life is to short. On a daily commute I get cut up daily through London. Bus drivers, as a pro driver, that represents the company swearing,y confronting members of the public, arguing the toss with the public, shouting are all not acceptable. The represent the company. Driving standards are shocking. Personally if the company refuses to do anything about this I would head off to blogger create a blog. Use the video write some content and expose the fact that have no idea about road safety
PaulSB
Squire
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
In all seriousness does anyone contributing to this thread know a driver who owns, let alone reads, the HC?
The problem is driving standards not whether or not one reads the HC on a regular basis. It won't change habits. Starting this thread and riding around with a copy of the HC in your saddlebag is indicative of someone hoping to make the most of a situation, having to be right and unable to appreciate this action may actually do more harm than good.
The first rule of any manoeuvre for cyclist or driver should be hold back if you can't see. Matthew could not be 100% certain no one was on the crossing. He took a risk, a very poor one in my book.
To strip this done to the bare bones what do we have?
A dangerous overtake for both cyclist and possible pedestrians. If Matthew had hit someone at 28mph, his stated speed I think, the result would have been very serious. I wonder if we would have a thread about that?
Neither the bus or the oncoming car started to move. The cyclist could not see properly, there could have been a small child, shorter than the level of the windscreen glass. The signs to slow and wait where there. Poor riding began the incident, correct riding would have avoided it.
The camera tapping then gets the unacceptable but highly predictable reaction from the bus driver.
Next the cyclist decides to escalate the situation to a far from necessary level by chasing down and confronting the driver for giving him the finger. Matthew's approach to the driver was always going to get the man's back up. The response is wrong but it is guaranteed to happen. If he felt really strongly it should be reported, confronting the man like that was never going to achieve any form of reasonable dialogue. We all know that if we are honest about it.
Yesterday I drove from Newcastle to Carlisle on the A69. Beyond Hexham there are four safe opportunities to overtake until Carlisle. Traffic was 45-55 and bunching behind HGVs.
A lunatic in a VW "transit" had been on my bumper for miles, he eventually overtook me on the approach to a bend on double white lines, when the traffic speed had dropped to perhaps 20 and forced his way into the gap.
Did I chase him down? No. Did I take action to protect myself? Yes. I simply dropped back so that if the potential accident occurred I could stop. The VW driver then overtook 4 more vehicles, including a trailer, all at once on a double white line bend in a 30 limit forcing two other vehicles to move over for him.
Correct and best action? Slow down and keep well back. Possible result of following and confronting? Broken teeth. Would it make the slightest difference to that driver!s future behaviour? No.
No doubt taking no action makes me the problem.
Why do these things only happen to camera users?
The Jogger
Legendary Member
- Location
- Spain
Excellent post PaulSB well thought out unlike the actions of all involved in this little incident. I haven't read all the comments on this thread but I'm guessing the driver runs the risk of discipline which could result in job loss and even the roof over his families head. For what hand bags at dawn and inflated ego's.
The Jogger
Legendary Member
- Location
- Spain
Sack both the feckers, a definite threat by the second bloke to knock you off if he sees you again
Your forum name is spot on..........
The Jogger
Legendary Member
- Location
- Spain
Twitter? More like twit. FFS get a life mate..........
ComedyPilot
Secret Lemonade Drinker
- Location
- The Kingdom of Yorkshire
I find some poster's treatment of Matthew to be frankly bullying. Moving to the OP I see it like this:
[Key - Matthew = MT, bus driver = BD, second bus driver = 2BD, 3rd clueless, opinionated, threatening, sunglasses-wearing in stupid position bus driver = 3CBDOTSWSP, the PCSO = The PCSO]
MT rides quickly - what's the hurry? (opinion/question)
MT approaches bus stopped at crossing.
MT 'anticipates' the green and guns it to get in front of bus - I wouldn't do it, but he would/did, and despite people's 'what if' comments nothing happened.
BD stops almost immediately at the bus stop, and MT in NO way impeded the bus, or caused the bus to brake/alter position to avoid a collision
MT cycles further
BD catches MT and (if MT's account for speed is true (no reason not to be)) the only way the bus could catch MT from a standing start in a 30 limit is to travel at MORE than 30 - Simply measure the time/distance from the bus stop to the passing position and it's a simple distance/time/speed calculation
BD passes MT into oncoming traffic on a single carriage way and the pass was close - no denying
MT passes BD again stuck in traffic
BD passes MT again
MT points at camera and the BD
BD flicks MT the bird and drives away.
MT rides (quickly) to the bus depot and seeks out the driver
BD threatens MT with a slap
MT asks 3CBDOTSWSP and 2BD if the depot manager is in and explains situation
3CBDOTSWSP demonstrates a stunning ability to be wrong, threatening and stupid all at the same time as holding a PSV license. ie he is licensed to drive our nearest and dearest.....
MT and 3CBDOTSWSP approach The PCSO and ask for confirmation of the HC on rule 163. The PCSO shrugs, and tries to pass it to the other PCSO.
MT meanwhile parks his bike and calmly retrieves a photocopy of rule 163 and points out 3CBDOTSWSP's error - classic, had me laughing
3CBDOTSWSP despite being a 'professional driver, in uniform, at work, clearly threatens MT on camera that if he saw MT (riding) he wouldn't give him a car door's width.
None of the above would have happened if MT didn't pass the BD in the first place. He did, but in no way caused the BD any inconvenience.
This escalated IMO due to the BD's close pass, speeding, rude finger gesture, threats when confronted, and 3CBDOTSWSP's total lack of HC knowledge and that threat - which I would want dealing with as a matter of priority.
People castigating Matthew on here should be farking ashamed of themselves. Agreed, MT's initial overtake was stupid, I wouldn't do it, and one would hope Matthew will learn from it, but everything else happened and escalated due to the actions of men older (wiser) than 'young' Matthew.
All Matthew did was confront their behaviour. Some posters on here seriously need to look at themselves and recalculate their personal values.
[Key - Matthew = MT, bus driver = BD, second bus driver = 2BD, 3rd clueless, opinionated, threatening, sunglasses-wearing in stupid position bus driver = 3CBDOTSWSP, the PCSO = The PCSO]
MT rides quickly - what's the hurry? (opinion/question)
MT approaches bus stopped at crossing.
MT 'anticipates' the green and guns it to get in front of bus - I wouldn't do it, but he would/did, and despite people's 'what if' comments nothing happened.
BD stops almost immediately at the bus stop, and MT in NO way impeded the bus, or caused the bus to brake/alter position to avoid a collision
MT cycles further
BD catches MT and (if MT's account for speed is true (no reason not to be)) the only way the bus could catch MT from a standing start in a 30 limit is to travel at MORE than 30 - Simply measure the time/distance from the bus stop to the passing position and it's a simple distance/time/speed calculation
BD passes MT into oncoming traffic on a single carriage way and the pass was close - no denying
MT passes BD again stuck in traffic
BD passes MT again
MT points at camera and the BD
BD flicks MT the bird and drives away.
MT rides (quickly) to the bus depot and seeks out the driver
BD threatens MT with a slap
MT asks 3CBDOTSWSP and 2BD if the depot manager is in and explains situation
3CBDOTSWSP demonstrates a stunning ability to be wrong, threatening and stupid all at the same time as holding a PSV license. ie he is licensed to drive our nearest and dearest.....
MT and 3CBDOTSWSP approach The PCSO and ask for confirmation of the HC on rule 163. The PCSO shrugs, and tries to pass it to the other PCSO.
MT meanwhile parks his bike and calmly retrieves a photocopy of rule 163 and points out 3CBDOTSWSP's error - classic, had me laughing
3CBDOTSWSP despite being a 'professional driver, in uniform, at work, clearly threatens MT on camera that if he saw MT (riding) he wouldn't give him a car door's width.
None of the above would have happened if MT didn't pass the BD in the first place. He did, but in no way caused the BD any inconvenience.
This escalated IMO due to the BD's close pass, speeding, rude finger gesture, threats when confronted, and 3CBDOTSWSP's total lack of HC knowledge and that threat - which I would want dealing with as a matter of priority.
People castigating Matthew on here should be farking ashamed of themselves. Agreed, MT's initial overtake was stupid, I wouldn't do it, and one would hope Matthew will learn from it, but everything else happened and escalated due to the actions of men older (wiser) than 'young' Matthew.
All Matthew did was confront their behaviour. Some posters on here seriously need to look at themselves and recalculate their personal values.
PaulSB
Squire
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
Apologies for selectively quoting but I'm interested in this bit. We have both said we would not have carried out the overtake, for me I know it wasn't safe and I presume you feel the same? I, and others, have commented on the "what if" scenario, this is the anticipation EVERY road user should be employing - what if a child follows the ball which just bounced in the road? With Matthew's overtake "nothing happened" so we should not take this into consideration?
The bus driver made a close pass, I'v experienced far worse, when he should have been thinking "what if" the cyclist hits a pot hole? "Nothing happened" though - if we are going to ignore Matthew's overtake because nothing happened the same should be applied to the bus driver's close pass, to do otherwise is a double standard.
After all this discussion "nothing happened."
Or is the cyclist allowed a, IMO, dangerous manouevre and the bus driver not? I frequently get the impression this is the case.
As for bullying I would hope as a father of three young men I'm not guilty. However Matthew has chosen to put up a video in which he feels he is in the right. What the thread shows is not everyone agrees with him. There is a right and wrong way to respond to his posts but his age should not prevent people from commenting. We have to learn in life putting ourselves in the wrong situation can have serious consequences - by which I mean thinking it all through not the posting of the video. It's like not going to certain parts of town at night, if I get mugged it's not my fault but I could have avoided the situation.
ComedyPilot
Secret Lemonade Drinker
- Location
- The Kingdom of Yorkshire
Let's be clear on this, I am not condoning MT's initial overtake, but nothing happened. He did something I would not do. Like you, I wouldn't do it because of the 'what if' factor.
The BD's overtake DID something, it caused MT to fear for his safety, which in turn contributed to the ensuing escalation. The pass was close (at speed...30+?) into oncoming traffic, and on the zig-zag lines of a crossing (about 1:30 into the vid) - so something 'happened' - apart from MT only the oncoming drivers can comment on how close it was.
With respect I think you are using the 'nothing happened' phrase to show a collision didn't occur, where I am using it to show lots of poor driving, and possible offences did occur.
I do not condone MT's overtake for all the 'what if' reasons. But he did it and got away with it, although I would like to hope he has the sense to critique his riding and look back at this incident and perhaps learn from it? (eh, @Matthew_T)
I am in no way making blanket excuses for dangerous cycling, but just because a cyclist does a frankly stupid move it doesn't mean a professional bus driver carrying hundreds of old people and pregnant women and toddlers should use his faster/bigger bus to do the MGIF of cyclist. And to then lose his temper and flip the bird, and ask a video camera wearing cyclist if he wants a slap?
I am old school, and I was taught the phrase, "If someone jumped off a cliff, would you follow them?" - and it seems the BD wasn't taught this. Only he can explain his actions, but from the vid, I would say he let MT's actions affect his behaviour - not good for a bus driver?
Boot on the other foot time, if I were a bus driver, I would have seen MT coming alongsideand doored him and anticipated him passing me, then let him go on his merry way. If I then caught up to him (by not speeding) I would then wait for a clear opportunity to safely pass - a total non-event.
The BD's overtake DID something, it caused MT to fear for his safety, which in turn contributed to the ensuing escalation. The pass was close (at speed...30+?) into oncoming traffic, and on the zig-zag lines of a crossing (about 1:30 into the vid) - so something 'happened' - apart from MT only the oncoming drivers can comment on how close it was.
With respect I think you are using the 'nothing happened' phrase to show a collision didn't occur, where I am using it to show lots of poor driving, and possible offences did occur.
I do not condone MT's overtake for all the 'what if' reasons. But he did it and got away with it, although I would like to hope he has the sense to critique his riding and look back at this incident and perhaps learn from it? (eh, @Matthew_T)
I am in no way making blanket excuses for dangerous cycling, but just because a cyclist does a frankly stupid move it doesn't mean a professional bus driver carrying hundreds of old people and pregnant women and toddlers should use his faster/bigger bus to do the MGIF of cyclist. And to then lose his temper and flip the bird, and ask a video camera wearing cyclist if he wants a slap?
I am old school, and I was taught the phrase, "If someone jumped off a cliff, would you follow them?" - and it seems the BD wasn't taught this. Only he can explain his actions, but from the vid, I would say he let MT's actions affect his behaviour - not good for a bus driver?
Boot on the other foot time, if I were a bus driver, I would have seen MT coming alongside
oldfatfool
Guru
I'm sorry?
As mentioned by others, Mat's pass is I agree foolhardy at best, pointing to his camera "could" be seen as a rude gesture by the BD and result in the "bird". Mat going to the depot and confronting the driver and threatening is job is antagonistic and again foolhardy, HOWEVER the 1st bus driver instead of apologising and saying ok mate 6 of one etc decided to threaten Mat with physical violence. The 2nd driver, who as in no way been confronted or accused of anything by Mat, proceeds to warn him not to ride on the road when there is a cycle lane, or (effectively) on his bus route. Both of these characters are in charge of a 30' long 4 tonne? killing machine on a public road, and you seem to think that is an ok state of affairs?
Now I agree that Mathew is not blameless in the way this as panned out, but the bus driver(s) really have overstepped the mark, and to continue being so stupid, after being made aware that the whole incident was being recorded, shows a severely reckless attitude, that I wouldn't have thought suitable for a bus driver?
It isn't so long ago that a bus driver was jailed for deliberately ramming a cyclist, should they have just let it go?
Edit:
Having gone back and read Pauls post that you mention, I agree wholeheartedly with his post with two inferred exceptions, white van man is not a uniformed server of the public, and second being passed close and or dangerously whilst driving a car, whilst not fun, is not comparable to the same on a cycle.
Do I honestly believe they should both be sacked, probably not, but they do need a sharp shock to make them concentrate and think about their actions. If they continue in the trend they are in, (that Mat may have started), then their attitude to cyclists will only get worse and it could be you or me that bares the brunt of their final outrage.
RWright
Guru
- Location
- North Carolina
Lose the horn and work on improving your speed and endurance so none of this stuff happens in the first place. 
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