Fasta Asloth
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kingston
Exactly, as I alluded to above....2875315 said:
Are cyclists exempt from speed limits?
- Thread starter classic33
- Start date
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There are many laws that have defined limits. It is not the state's responsibility to ensure that the individual carries the ability to measure that which is defined as the limit but for the person to stay within the limit and use whatever the individual deems necessary to do so.
The perfect example, as suggested above, is drink driving. You are not required to have the ability to test yourself but you are required by law to be below the legal limit. Another would be a court giving a restraining order and the convicted person stating that unless they are legally obliged to carry a tape measure they cannot enforce the order as they have no way of knowing.
Just because cars have a legal requirement to a speedometer, it does not therefor follow that cyclist cannot have the same laws of speeding without a legal requirement to have a speedometer. There may well be or not be speeding laws for cyclists, but not having a speedometer will not change whether the laws are introduced or not.
swansonj
Guru
When this was discussed on the CTC Forum, I seem to remember the conclusion was that it could well have been the other way round. In general, speed limits do not apply to bicycles, so the default position would be that they don't apply to bicycles in Royal Parks either. Under this thesis, it was sloppy drafting in the original regulations, by using "vehicle" instead of "mechanically propelled vehicle", that unintentionally brought bicycles within the scope, and the adding of the definition that vehicle only actually means mechanically propelled vehicle in the Amendment regs was correcting that original mistake.2875029 said:
I don't think any of us actually know one way or the other.
totallyfixed
Veteran
- Location
- The only county without a McDonalds
I think I would disagree with that. There has to be a way of measuring the speed of any vehicle on a public road in order to determine whether an offence has been committed. Makes me wonder about TT's, there is a village not far from us where competitors are regularly breaking the 30 mph speed limit as it is slightly downhill.
I agree that the state must prove that you were speeding by using calibrated equipment akin to a speed camera, but not that the rider must also have a speedometer to make sure they were within the limit.
fabregas485
Senior Member
- Location
- Harrow
If there was a speed limit that applied to cyclist of 20mph, and you were cycling though it at 25mph could you get fined? If you had no way to tell what your speed was, but you believed you were within the limit, can they fine you?
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
Yes, ignorance of the law is no defence.
Chromatic
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
I assume things are different now but back in the good old days I had a car that went through many MOTS with a broken speedo. It was a Renault 25 and the first speedo stopped at about 30000 miles just after I got the car, that was fixed under warranty, that one lasted about the same mileage before giving up the ghost. I then got a second hand one from a scrapyard, that one lasted a while before it too stopped, by then I decided I was wasting my money getting new speedos fitted so I drove it around for years and years without a one.
glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
I've not been able to find one. What I did find states the opposite and comes from the CPS:
The term mechanically propelled vehicle is not defined in the Road Traffic Acts. It is ultimately a matter of fact and degree for the court to decide. At its most basic level it is a vehicle which can be propelled by mechanical means. It can include both electrically and steam powered vehicles.
What is clear is that pedal cycle is defined and it is not a mechanically propelled vehicle.
GC
glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
Yes, I've always thought the same, it was only when I tried to pin down a legally defined description that I came up empty-handed, except for that CPS quote. I agree that it's commonly applied only in relation to motor vehicles but it is ultimately a matter of facts in each case.
GC
Fasta Asloth
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kingston
...at least some law enforcers also seem not to be clear on the matter that you are so clear on...that's the point
steve52
I'm back! Yippeee
- Location
- bottesford scunthorpe
i just thought, if we are not bound by speed limits,then Einstein was wrong!
swansonj
Guru
Now we have convinced everyone (except, possibly, the constabulary and magistrate) that not even the speed limits in the Royal Parks apply to cyclists, there is still a debate as to whether cyclists should (as opposed to must) obey them anyway.
An argument as to why we shouldn't, and presumably the argument why the law exempts us, is that we do vastly less damage, speed for speed, when we hit something than a car does.
An argument as to why we should is that the gap that a pedestrian needs to cross a road depends only on the speed of the approaching vehicle, not its mass.
An argument as to why we shouldn't, and presumably the argument why the law exempts us, is that we do vastly less damage, speed for speed, when we hit something than a car does.
An argument as to why we should is that the gap that a pedestrian needs to cross a road depends only on the speed of the approaching vehicle, not its mass.
TheLondonCyclist
Guest
The boy was young and pleaded guilty straight away due to not knowing the 2010 amendment. Police will do anything to get a nice fine out of you.
glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
It isn't. Consumption of alcohol is not an integral part of driving or riding a vehicle, speed is.
GC
