Are they having a laugh ?

[Wobblers]

So you are saying you have not a got a clue how much they cost to run. You have as most people do missed a lot of expenses off of the list.

What is the average turn out for a Dellzeqq ride, I do not ride these expensive events but I am happy for other people to do so if that is their wish, they have choice which to me is brilliant thing to have.

Between 60-100 people turn up for an FNRttC. The audaxes my club runs are limited to about 200 riders.

All those "hidden costs" - so how come audaxes manage it, with free food, for so much less? A LBS manages to run a Sportive close to me for the princely sum of £15 - how does that work then? I note that, whilst you're not backwards about saying that everyone else doesn't have a clue, but you seem to be less forward in supplying any figures yourself. The fact that a LBS can provide a sportive cheaply, not to mention audaxes manage on very much less is all very strong evidence that all "these expenses" I've missed are much less significant than you would claim.

The fact is, sportives are priced as high as the market will bear. No more, and no less. To claim otherwise is just marketing. Spare us that, we can get plenty of that from Wiggle. And you know what? If people are prepared to pay for that, that's fine. I hope they enjoy themselves. But any suggestion that all those "hidden costs" are fully ten times that of an audax seems way over the top.

 

[slowmotion]

Yes and no. I wouldn't tag uninvited on the back of a club run where I was not a member. On the other hand BHF's L2B is fair game.

You bet! Thirty years ago, after flopping into bed at 4 am after an alcoholic epic with some medical students from Bart's Hospital, I "borrowed" a race bike and tagged along at 9 am. No sponsorship at all. No shame either. Just a lot of fun.

The bike was returned to its owner in immaculate condition. I forgot to ask his permission, that's all.

 

[screenman]

Between 60-100 people turn up for an FNRttC. The audaxes my club runs are limited to about 200 riders.

All those "hidden costs" - so how come audaxes manage it, with free food, for so much less? A LBS manages to run a Sportive close to me for the princely sum of £15 - how does that work then? I note that, whilst you're not backwards about saying that everyone else doesn't have a clue, but you seem to be less forward in supplying any figures yourself. The fact that a LBS can provide a sportive cheaply, not to mention audaxes manage on very much less is all very strong evidence that all "these expenses" I've missed are much less significant than you would claim.

The fact is, sportives are priced as high as the market will bear. No more, and no less. To claim otherwise is just marketing. Spare us that, we can get plenty of that from Wiggle. And you know what? If people are prepared to pay for that, that's fine. I hope they enjoy themselves. But any suggestion that all those "hidden costs" are fully ten times that of an audax seems way over the top.

You are correct I have not got a clue, which is why I do not run the organisers down about it, I like companies,clubs and even individuals to make a profit that way they will be there to supply me next time.

I have also said I do not ride Sportives, not only because of the prices but they also tend to have one or two kamikaze riders in, and the mess left behind I do not want to be associated with.

Most of us like some extra money, if it is as easy as many think to run a Sportive and make a years wages out of one, then why do so few people do so. The answer is it is not easy to organise events of this scale I would imagine.

 

[srw]

I would challenge "why do so few people do so". There seem to be an awful lot of them about.

Somewhere in one of the charity ride threads there's a back-of-the-envelope calculation of the costs involved and the profits available.

 

[byegad]

For that kind of money I'd want my own team car to hang on to for 96 miles!

 

[screenman]

Would it be reasonable to assume that, if the event is sold out at £99 per head, the organisers are going to
A) Make a handsome profit.
Or
B) Did something stupid like restrict entry to 10 riders and put gold leaf in the bisons.

Not got a clue Adrian, as I do not know the costs involved. How much is their insurance costs, admin costs, advertising costs, staff costs, equipment hire, venue hire, police costs (if any) fuel bills accountant bills, bank charges, heating, lighting, you know all those little things we sometimes forget.

For sure some will make a profit, surely that is what a business owner wants.

 

[50000tears]

The costs are irrelevant really. Like others have said the companies will charge the highest number they can that still fills the event. Maybe if they charge too much though it may harm their reputation, but don't know if this is a consideration for them or not.

 

[screenman]

I think we should be grateful that Ironman is not our chosen sport.

 

[Shaun]

To my mind, when you pay a fee it is for the timing kit and data (if any), food stops, start / finish facilites, marshals (if any), course reccy/marking/waypointers, goodie-bags or "extras", mechanic / support vehicle, etc. and anything else the organiser might provide.

It is most definitely not for exclusive hire of the public highways the course/s run over.

Now, of course, if you roll-up and then use the waypoints and marshals without paying an entry fee, then that's perhaps taking somewhat of a small liberty - and, of course, using any of the paid-for facilites or food stops would be incredibly bad manners - but neither the organisers nor participants can really do much of anything about this when using the public highways; you've really just got to hope people won't be so rude as to use the paid-for facilities, and if they do ride the course, do so "in support" of the ride participants and not interfere with or hinder them.

 

[snorri]

I don't see the entry fee as as any sort of entitlement to the road anymore than it is an entitlement to the air you breathe as you cycle along that road.

 

[screenman]

Of course it is but that still ignores what is for me the major point. Party A, the business running the event, sell that to party B, the riders, and between them engender a sense of entitlement to that bit of public highway at that time to the extent that party C, you feel it appropriate to criticise party D, anyone else who decides to use that road at that time.

Bang on, manners maketh man so somebody once said I believe.

I would not consider gate crashing somebodies party good manner.

 

[screenman]

Nor would you expect to occupy a public road and charge entry for your party, would you?

Yes.

 

[nickyboy]

Blimey is this argument still rolling on?

Just to help me to understand others' viewpoints as I am struggling; Roads are public spaces so of course anyone can ride them whenever they want. But someone organises a special event, that you don't want to be part of. But you decide to ride exactly the same route on exactly the same day.

Why not ride some other day? Or ride somewhere else? Of course you can say "Well, I'm entitled to ride whenever and wherever I like" which is true. But why bother riding with a load of other folk when you could ride the route at any time?

 

[screenman]

At the risk of falling into your cunningly undisguised trap, I am sure you have a good example to show for this seemingly ill mannered behavior.

Sorry I was called out of the office, I would charge for the event which happened to be on public roads that I had got permission to use for the event.

 

[50000tears]

To my mind, when you pay a fee it is for the timing kit and data (if any), food stops, start / finish facilites, marshals (if any), course reccy/marking/waypointers, goodie-bags or "extras", mechanic / support vehicle, etc. and anything else the organiser might provide.

It is most definitely not for exclusive hire of the public highways the course/s run over.

Now, of course, if you roll-up and then use the waypoints and marshals without paying an entry fee, then that's perhaps taking somewhat of a small liberty - and, of course, using any of the paid-for facilites or food stops would be incredibly bad manners - but neither the organisers nor participants can really do much of anything about this when using the public highways; you've really just got to hope people won't be so rude as to use the paid-for facilities, and if they do ride the course, do so "in support" of the ride participants and not interfere with or hinder them.

This is a very good post but one point I would disagree with is what is being paid for. When you sign up for a sportive the event is the whole package, the support, the marshalling, the food etc but main part of that event is the bike ride with other like minded people. After all you could take any of the other stuff away, and as long as the mass participation ride is intact and the price point fair, many will want to take part. You take the bike ride away though and you just have a gathering of people wondering why they paid so much for so little, if anyone turned up that is. The "event" is a fully supported bike ride and that is what people pay their money for. Yes you can ride your bike on the same roads for free at any time but that should not give you an open invitation to freeload an organised event.

Yes it is on public roads but this is due to the fact that the police and local authority would not sanction road closures for this type of event even if the organiser wanted it. The roads being open obviously entitles anyone to be there but for me this should not be an excuse to effectively gatecrash a paid for event that you want to participate in but have not paid for.

Another argument I have seen is how it hurts anyone if additional people turn up "without a ticket". This may be true but by the same token the vast majority of people would not consider sneaking into a cinema or a rock concert without paying. However they do see it as game on if it is an event that they can easy access on a public road.